Findings since yesterday's message confirm that Julian Adcocke--not Elizabeth
Skarlette--was Margaret (Sutton) Carpenter's mother and provide additional information
about Julian's families of orientation and procreation.
JOHN "ADCOKE" married at Attleborough, Norfolk, 7 October (not 20 July) 1593,
ELIZABETH ELDRED (Parish Registers of Attleborough, 1:31r [digitized images in
FamilySearch collection _England, Norfolk Parish Registers, 1538-1900_ > Attleborough
> Baptisms, Marriages, Burials > 1552-1652, online at
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https://api.familysear...
[hereafter Attleborough PR]; NEHGR 143[1989]:299, 300n, m. 20 July).
Among their children were daughters JULIAN ADCOCKE, baptized at Attleborough 11 February
1598/9, and NEELE "ADCOK," baptized there 20 February 1602/3 (Attleborough PR
36r, 39r). (For a complete list of the Adcocke children and their baptismal dates, see
NEHGR 143:300n.) Julian married probably at Attleborough, say 1619, JOHN SUTTON; Neele
married, also probably at Attleborough, say 1623, STEPHEN PAINE. In June 1638, the two
couples and their children sailed for Massachusetts on the _Diligent_ and settled first at
Hingham, then Rehoboth (NEHGR 15[1861]:26-27; 143:301).
Children of John and Julian (Adcocke) Sutton for whom English records have been found:
ELISABETH [sic] SUTTON, bap. Great Saxham, Suffolk (about 35 miles from Attleborough), 25
May 1623, dau. of John Sutton and wife Julian (FamilySearch extraction from Parish
Registers of Great Saxham [FHL film #952,199, item 2; hereafter GrSaxPR]). Dated about
four months after her family had emigrated, the will of Elizabeth's maternal
grandfather, John Adcocke, names her a legatee. She apparently remained in England.
MARY SUTTON, bap. Great Saxham 10 Aug. 1625, dau. of John Sutton and wife Julian
(GrSaxPR); m. probably at Rehoboth, JOHN FITCH (NEHGR 91[1937]:64).
ANTHONY SUTTON, bap. St. Dunstan, Stepney, London, 25 June 1626, son of John Sutton and
wife Julian (FamilySearch extraction from Parish Registers of St. Dunstan, Stepney, London
[FHL film #595,417]); no further record.
JUDITH SUTTON, bap. Attleborough 27 Nov. 1629, dau. of John Sutton (Attleborough PR 61v);
no further record.
MARGARETT [sic] SUTTON, bap. Attleborough 30 Nov. 1637, dau. of [blank] Sutton and [blank]
(Attleborough PR 65v); m. Rehoboth 25 Nov. 1655, JOSEPH CARPENTER.
***In that Julian Sutton is recorded as the mother of the first three of John Sutton's
five children listed above—beginning in 1623—and appears several times in Rehoboth and
Plymouth Colony records (up through the year of her death, in 1678), she was indisputably
the mother of the other two, of whom Margaret (Sutton) Carpenter, was arguably her last
child.***
From the records of Hingham, Rehoboth, and Scituate, four other children of John Sutton
have been deduced, most or all with his only known wife, Julian: JOHN, b. ca. 1621 (aged
70 in 1691); HANNAH, d. Hingham 1642; ESTHER, m. Rehoboth 1646, Richard Bowen; ANNE, m.
Rehoboth 1651, John Daggett (NEHGR 91:63-64; Stevens-Miller Anc 1:269-70). A John Sutton,
son of John Sutton, was baptized at Cambridge, Cambridge (about 25 miles from Great
Saxham, 50 from Attleborough, ), 1 July 1621 (FamilySearch extraction from bishop's
transcripts for St. Benedict's Church, Cambridge [FHL film #1,818,377]).
Gene Z.
On Aug 21, 2011, at 4:04 AM, Gene Zubrinsky wrote:
The following excerpts from my Joseph Carpenter sketch (online at
http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Joseph3-Rehoboth&Swansea.pdf) relate to
yesterday's message pertaining to the family of immigrant John Sutton, whose daughter
Margaret married Joseph3 Carpenter of Rehoboth and Swansea (significant formatting was
lost in the transfer and I suspect more will be lost in transmission):
JOSEPH3 CARPENTER (William2 of Rehoboth, William1) was baptized at Shalbourne, Berkshire,
England, on 6 April 1634 and died at Swansea, Plymouth Colony, between 3 May 1675 (date of
will [not 1676]) and 6 May 1675 (date of burial). He is said to have been buried near the
“100-acre cove,” in that part of Swansea now Barrington, Rhode Island. Joseph married at
Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony, on 25 November (not May) 1655, MARGARET SUTTON, who died,
probably at Swansea, between 21 March 1675[/6] and 4 October 1676 (not in 1700), daughter
of John1 and probably Julian (Adcocke) Sutton of Attleborough, co. Norfolk, England;
Hingham, Massachusetts Bay Colony; and Rehoboth (TAG 70:194, 204; RVR 1:44; PCPR 3:2:33,
36, 37; SwVR A:147; NEHGR 15:26-27, 91:61-64; 143:299-300, 159:44-45; Carpenter [1898] 45
[burial place]; see also MARRIAGE and COMMENTS sections, below). . . .
MARRIAGE: The month of Joseph and Margaret (Sutton) Carpenter’s marriage, which Amos B.
Carpenter mistakenly gives as May, is November (Carpenter [1898] 45; RVR 1:44).
Margaret Sutton’s date of birth is unknown. The 1635 birth year often attributed to her
stems from Amos Carpenter’s identification of another woman’s gravestone inscription as
hers (see below).
Widow Margaret Carpenter submitted her husband Joseph’s estate inventory to the court on
21 March 1675[/6] (PCPR 3:2:36). In that her own inventory was taken on 4 October 1676,
she died between those dates (see PCPR 3:2:37). The Old Rehoboth (Newman) Cemetery
gravestone whose inscription Amos Carpenter presents as “M. C. D. Y. 1700 A. G. 65” and
attributes to Margaret belongs to Mary (Kingsbury) Cooper, born at Dedham, Massachusetts,
1 September 1637, and died at Rehoboth, 18 September 1700, wife of Thomas2 Cooper (NEHGR
159:45n13; RI Cems 63; Carpenter [1898] 45).
Due to this misidentification, Amos Carpenter gives Margaret’s gravesite as the “East
Providence burial ground,” that is, the Old Rehoboth (Newman) Cemetery (Carpenter [1898]
45). Having died so soon after her husband, however, she is almost certainly buried next
to him (see first paragraph). . . .
COMMENTS: . . . Daniel Cushing, a contemporary of John Sutton’s at Hingham, records that
Sutton, with a wife and four children (none of whom is identified), came from Attleborough
on the Diligent in 1638 (NEHGR 15:26-27). Immediately above the Sutton entry, Cushing
lists Stephen Paine and his family (unnamed), from Great Ellingham [adjacent to
Attleborough, in co. Norfolk], as passengers on the same ship. The will of former
Attleborough resident John Adcocke of Great Ellingham, dated 12 October 1638, names (among
others) “Stephen Payne my sonn in lawe” and grandchild Elizabeth Sutton (NEHGR
143:299-300). Among Adcocke’s children were daughters Julian and Neele, baptized at
Attleborough in 1598/9 and 1602/3, respectively (NEHGR 143:300n). Rehoboth vital records
list the death in 1660[/1?] of Neele (not Niobe or Noole) Paine, wife of Mr. Stephen
Paine, and the burial in 1678 of Julian Sutton (RVR 1:50a, 55a; NEHGR 143:300). On 3 June
1673 letters of administration were “graunted unto Julian Sutton, widdow, the late wife of
John Sutton, of Rehoboth, deceased” (PCR 5:116). It is thus apparent that Neele Paine and
Julian Sutton were sisters, both of them daughters of John and Elizabeth (Eldred) Adcocke
(see NEHGR 143:300n).
Without explanation, the distinguished genealogist Mary Lovering Holman described Julian
_______ as John1 Sutton’s second wife but fails to mention a first wife (Stevens-Miller
269). Holman undoubtedly knew that Charles E. Banks had identified the forename of
Sutton’s Diligent-passenger wife as Elizabeth (Planters 193). In attempting to reconstruct
the identities of Sutton-family passengers, however, Banks mistakenly used Scituate,
Plymouth Colony, records of John1 Sutton’s namesake son, his wife (Elizabeth House), and
four of their children (NEHGR 91[1937]:63, 64). This nullifies the claim that the elder
John Sutton had sailed to America with a wife Elizabeth. So, too, does the fact that by
1638, the year of his immigration, Sutton had a daughter Elizabeth, whom Julian's
father's will calls his grandchild. Although this does not guarantee that Julian was
also the mother of Sutton's daughter Margaret (birth/baptismal date unknown), it does
make it likely. Elizabeth Sutton was presumably named after Adcocke's wife (Julian’s
mother). Since grandparents’ names were usually given to children early in the birth
order, Elizabeth was probably older than Margaret. If so, logic dictates that Julian was
also Margaret’s mother. Nevertheless, the name Julian does not appear among any of John
Sutton’s known or supposed children and grandchildren (see Stevens-Miller 269-70; BrCoPR
2:123, 171).
For a key to source-note abbreviations, see pp. 5-8 of the online sketch.
Gene Z.
On Aug 21, 2011, at 12:01 AM, carpenter-request(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: J D <jimdandy1947(a)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] DESCENDANTS OF JOHN SUTTON
> To: carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
> Message-ID:
> <1313842806.96103.YahooMailClassic(a)web125617.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Roger & Susan Petersen petrsand(a)dwx.com to me
> show details 12/14/08
> JD,
>
> I am a reader of Gen-Medieval-L but I am not a contributor, therefore I am providing
this information to you which you are welcome to share in that forum or elsewhere.
>
> I am a descendant of John Sutton's daughter Margaret, who married Joseph
Carpenter. One of the responders to your question regarding John Sutton referenced the
book, Thirty-One English Immigrants Who Came to New England by 1662, by Dorothy C. and
Gerald E. Knoff, 1989. I copied off these pages some years back and here is some
information given:
>
> On about three trips to England starting in 1959, Gerald Knoff searched for records
pertaining to John Sutton and his family. In Boyd's Marriage Index, Norfolk
1626-1650, v. 6, p. 99, he found the marriage records of John Sutton and Elizabeth
Skarlette. He also traveled to the Church of Saint Stephen in Norwich and viewed the
Parish Register, and reported these records:
>
> Marriages:
> John Sutton of Wortwell, single man married Elizabeth Skarlette of Norwich Dec. 4,
1927.
>
> Baptized:
> March 11, 1631 John, first son of John Sutton
> January 16, 1632 Margaret, daughter of John Sutton
>
> The book went on to say that in 1962 he went to see the Register of St. Stephen's
Church at Wortwell, but the church was locked and no one could be found.
>
> He goes on to say that sometime after the birth of Margaret the Sutton family moved
to Attleborough from which they came to Massachusetts. They were passengers on the
Diligent. Planters of the Commonwealth 1620-1640, by Charles Edward Banks 1930, gives the
family of John Sutton as follows:
>
> John Sutton of Attleborough, Norfolk to Hingham
> Mrs. Elizabeth Sutton
> Hannah Sutton
> John Sutton, Jr.
> Nathaniel Sutton
> Elizabeth Sutton.
> He noted that Margaret, who was baptized at the Church of St. Stephen, was not named
among the children.
> He mentioned that at some time John Sutton married a second wife, as the name of his
widow was Julian. John Sutton died on 1 Jun 1672 and left an estate record.
>
> The author included the following children (summarized):
> 1. John, bapt. at St. Stephens Church in Norwich on 11 Mar 1631. Married in
Scituate 1 January 1661 to Elizabeth House, d/o Samuel House. John Sutton of Scituate
left a will dated 12 Nov 1691, indicating he was aged 70 years or there abouts.
> 2. Margaret, bapt. at St. Stephen's Church in Norwich on 16 Jan 1632. "she
may have died in England or Banks may not have learned of her existence. If Cushing [Town
clerk of Hingham, MA] numbered six persons in the family of John Sutton, she would have
made it seven. If she died in England, another child was named Margaret, for a Margaret
Sutton, daughter of John, married at Rehoboth 25 Nov 1655 Joseph Carpenter."
> 3. Hannah, named in Banks' list of the Sutton children, but may have been the
daughter Anna.
> 4. Anna/Anne married at Rehoboth 23 Oct 1651 to John Doggett. Other sources say
November. Torrey has her birthdate about 1629 which would make her probably the oldest
child in the family, as John is called "the first son."
> 5. Mary married John Fitch.
> 6. Nathaniel, b. England
> 7. Elizabeth, b. England
> 8. Ester, b. prob. Mass, m. at Rehoboth 4 Mar 1656 to Richard Bowen.
>
> The author included a brief account and photographs of St. Stephen's, Wortwell
and St. Stephen's, Norwich.
>
> I just took a look at the IGI and the marriage of John Sutton and Elizabeth Skarlette
is included as an entry. The FHL indicates that it has microfilm of the parish records of
St. Stephen's Norwich, but there is nothing for Wortwell.
>
> I made contact a few days ago with the Sutton surname study through FamilyTree DNA.
The coordinator contacted me to say that none of the current participants is descended
from this John Sutton.
>
> You are welcome to pass this information on to others who have interest in this
Sutton family.
>
> Roger Petersen
> petrsand(a)dwx.com
>
>
> ------------------------------