Dear John,
I was wondering why I could not translate some of those words! Thanks
for the French lesson.
My two French speaking friends have moved away and I am struggling ...
How is your French? :-]
I had another translation which translated read, "This is the report of
Pierre, monk of S. Remi of Reims. This historian, who knew Guillaume
count of Melun, assures in the fourth book of his history of the
conquest of the Holy Land, speaking of the retreat of the christian army
after the taking of Antioche in 1098, that this lord was of royal
lineage, and was cousin of Hugues of France, count of Vermandois,
brother of king Phillipe I. (long sentence!)"
Now I have Robert, a monk of S. Remi of Reims, who in his history of the
Terre Sainte liv. IV that the house of Melun was of or favored the royal
cause ...
Both were monks of Saint Remi of Reims. The "Abbaye de Saint Rémi de
Reims" is now a museum. I am toying with the idea to write and see if
they can provide more information.
But I think that Robert was using Pierre's information?
Thoughts?
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Des Pairs De France - Joyeuse
Genealogie De La Maison De Melun
(Genealogy of the House of Melun)
!BOOK: De Pairs De France by Joyeuse - Genealgie de la Maison de Melun.
(of the House of Melun). Pg 221+.
"Robert, moine de S. Remy de Reims, en son histoire de la Terre Sainte
liv. IV. a ecrit, que la maison de Melun sortoit d'une source royale,
(a) l'on a rassfemble (b) des titres & monumens de cette grande maison
destinez pour une histoire genealogique plus complette, qu'on ne la peut
donner ici. Le premier de cette ancienne maison, dont la memoire s'est
conservee jusqu'a present est."
(a) Voyez du Bouchet, hist. de Courtenay, pages 194. & Suivantes.
(b) Cabinee de M. de Clairembault.
Rough translation in progress follows:
Robert, monk of Saint Remy de Reims, in his history of the Terre Sainte
liv. IV. a ecrit, that the house of Melun favored(?) by the royal
cause?) sortoit d'une source royale, (a) l'on(we) a rassemble (b) des(of
the) titres & monumens de cette(that) grande maison destinez pour une
histoire (The title and ??? of that grand house ??? through out history)
genealogique plus complette, qu'on(we) ne la peut (maybe or perhaps?)
donner (agree?) ici here). Le premier de cette ancienne maison, dont
(of which) la memoire s'est conservee jusqu'a present est."
Subject:
Re: [CARPENTER] Des Pair de France
Date:
Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:55 EDT
From:
"John F. Chandler" <JCHBN(a)CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
To:
CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
Arrrrgggh! I hate it when people use "f" to represent the long "s"
of olden days. If you look at the originals, it is always more or
less clear which characters are f's and which are s's because the loops
curve in opposite directions for handwriting, the printed versions are
clearly distinguished by having a full crossbar on the "f" but only a
tick on the right side of the vertical stroke of the "s". There are
many pairs of words where an "s" can be changed to an "f" to give a
different meaning, both in French and in English, so there is definite
harm in misreprenting the old way of writing. Any time you don't have
a font with a distinct "long s", it is far preferable to use the
ordinary "short s"....
The reference is: "(a) Voyez du Bouchet, hift. de Courtenay,
pages 194.
HIST
& fuivanees."
SUIVANTES (I wonder how that
"t" came out as an "e")
"Robert, moine de S. Remy de Reims, en fon hiftoire de la Terre
Sainte
SON HISTOIRE
liv. IV. a ecrit, que la maifon de Melun fortoit d'une fource
royale,
MAISON SORTOIT SOURCE
(a) l'on a raffemble (b) des titres & monumens de cette
grande maifon
RASSEMBLE
MAISON
deftinez pour une hiftoire genealogique plus complette, qu'on ne
la peut
DESTINEZ HISTOIRE
donner ici. Le premier de cerre ancienne maifon, dont la memoire
s'eft
CETTE MAISON
EST
confervee jufqu'a prefent eft."
CONSERVEE JUSQU
PRESENT EST
Well, ok, there was no ambiguity in this passage, but that was just
luck.
It's hard enough dealing with archaisms like "destinez" for
"destines"
without having to watch out for f's as well. (At least the s's at the
ends of words were never written "long," so that's a help!)
John Chandler