Dear Bruce E.,
I look forward to reading Pere Anselme's history of the Melun family. I
am curious on how it compares to other records.
He is also supposed to have a section on Carpentier. Have you seen that
volume yet?
Keep the data coming, it is very interesting.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
carpenter wrote:
John L:
This is completely wrong. In Pere Anselme the Lordship of Melun
is passed down for hundred of years. Guillaume was an extremely common name
for later Meluns. As for several children of 'the carpenter', thier names
have not survived.
I suspect that anything known about the early Melun line is in Pere Anselme.
The Melun origin of the Carpenters is based on an assumption without the
slightest
evidence. It has been discredited. It is a bad habit like cigars. Yes,
probably hard
to give up, like the one I just finished smoking.
I will say one thing, the Melun line is really impressive. They lasted right
up to the guillotine.
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001(a)home.com>
To: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 4:06 PM
Subject: [CARPENTER] more Melun
> Dear Bruce E.,
>
> William "the carpenter" De Melun had several children. Only one carried
> the title of Lord of Melun, as documented. Other children took their
> own titles or died before he did.
>
> William "the carpenter" de Melun lived a relatively long time for a
> Knight of the time. From about 1044 to about 1109 or so.
>
> Under the title and surname "Melun" you are right that there was only
> one other "Guillaume II de Melun." He was the fourth great grand son of
> William "the carpenter" de Melun.
>
> Please note that Guillaume and Manasses are rare names in the De Melun
> line. Both names did not bear well for the holders. Some were tainted
> with the name traitor and/or died young.
>
> "1) Guillaume II, who accompanied King Louis XI on his expedition to
> Africa, and who died without issue ..." (Page 1399-1400). One of four
> grandsons of Adam II De Melun.
>
> This Guillaume II had a brother named Adam. He was Adam II just like
> his father, Adam II. Why? Titles, but with the last Surname!
>
> !Confusion arises when there is two Adam Is & Adam IIs in this
> (Melun)line. However one set is of the Lord of Meluns and the other is
> the Lord of Tancarville line. THIS ADAM is Adam II, "Lord of
> Tancarville, orginator of the Tancarville branch, which was extinguished
> at the beginning of the 15th century, after having produced several
> archbishops, several grand chamberlains and other court dignitaries, and
> whose last descendant, Guillaume ... perished at the battle of
> Agincourt. From this branch came that of the counts and princes of
> Epinay, lords of the manor of Ghent, marquis of Roubaix and richebourg,
> and counts of saint-Pol. This branch ended with Louis De Melun, prince
> of Epinay, made duke of Joyeuse in 1714, killed during a hunting party
> at Chantilly in 1724, without leaving any descendants." (Page
> 1399-1400).
>
> The puzzle is more complex than I ever had dreamed of!
>
> Keep sending the data!
>
> John R. Carpenter
> La Mesa, CA
>
> Subject:
> [CARPENTER] more Melun
> Date:
> Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:21:18 -0500
> From:
> "carpenter" <carp(a)tezukayama-u.ac.jp>
> To:
> CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
>
>
> A the conclusion of Father Ansleme' account of
> of William 'the carpenter' DeMelun (vol. 5, p. 221) he says that
> "de race royale & cousin de Hugues de France, compte de Vermandois,
> frere du roi Philippe l."
>
> The jist of this is that William, was the cousin of Hugh the Grand who
> was the brother
> of King Philip of France, the implication being that William
> was the grandson of Hugh Capet, King of France,
> the first of the Capetian kings of France.
>
> Where did the notion that these people were Normans come from? Wow.
>
> As I stated William the First had only one son. He certainly didn't
> have a son William because William the Second DeMelun appears
> in the 1200s. This is a definitive end of the DeMelun-English Carpenter
> discussion. Theory disproved 3/21/ 2001. 2:15 in the afternoon, Nara,
> Japan.
> Thank you all ladies and gentlemen!
>
> Bruce E. Carpenter
>
>