Dear Bruce E.,
William "the carpenter" De Melun had several children. Only one carried
the title of Lord of Melun, as documented. Other children took their
own titles or died before he did.
William "the carpenter" de Melun lived a relatively long time for a
Knight of the time. From about 1044 to about 1109 or so.
Under the title and surname "Melun" you are right that there was only
one other "Guillaume II de Melun." He was the fourth great grand son of
William "the carpenter" de Melun.
Please note that Guillaume and Manasses are rare names in the De Melun
line. Both names did not bear well for the holders. Some were tainted
with the name traitor and/or died young.
"1) Guillaume II, who accompanied King Louis XI on his expedition to
Africa, and who died without issue ..." (Page 1399-1400). One of four
grandsons of Adam II De Melun.
This Guillaume II had a brother named Adam. He was Adam II just like
his father, Adam II. Why? Titles, but with the last Surname!
!Confusion arises when there is two Adam Is & Adam IIs in this
(Melun)line. However one set is of the Lord of Meluns and the other is
the Lord of Tancarville line. THIS ADAM is Adam II, "Lord of
Tancarville, orginator of the Tancarville branch, which was extinguished
at the beginning of the 15th century, after having produced several
archbishops, several grand chamberlains and other court dignitaries, and
whose last descendant, Guillaume ... perished at the battle of
Agincourt. From this branch came that of the counts and princes of
Epinay, lords of the manor of Ghent, marquis of Roubaix and richebourg,
and counts of saint-Pol. This branch ended with Louis De Melun, prince
of Epinay, made duke of Joyeuse in 1714, killed during a hunting party
at Chantilly in 1724, without leaving any descendants." (Page
1399-1400).
The puzzle is more complex than I ever had dreamed of!
Keep sending the data!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Subject:
[CARPENTER] more Melun
Date:
Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:21:18 -0500
From:
"carpenter" <carp(a)tezukayama-u.ac.jp>
To:
CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
A the conclusion of Father Ansleme' account of
of William 'the carpenter' DeMelun (vol. 5, p. 221) he says that
"de race royale & cousin de Hugues de France, compte de Vermandois,
frere du roi Philippe l."
The jist of this is that William, was the cousin of Hugh the Grand who
was the brother
of King Philip of France, the implication being that William
was the grandson of Hugh Capet, King of France,
the first of the Capetian kings of France.
Where did the notion that these people were Normans come from? Wow.
As I stated William the First had only one son. He certainly didn't
have a son William because William the Second DeMelun appears
in the 1200s. This is a definitive end of the DeMelun-English Carpenter
discussion. Theory disproved 3/21/ 2001. 2:15 in the afternoon, Nara,
Japan.
Thank you all ladies and gentlemen!
Bruce E. Carpenter