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Robin,
Here is the answer I got.
What I really found interesting was the explanation of the 25 marker test
with X step mismatches. The calculation based on mutation assumptions is the
math that is ambiguous. The graphs help also.
25 Marker test
25 - 0- 0 : Match exactly at all 25 markers
24 - 1- 0 : 24 exact matches, 1 one-step mismatch
24- 0 - 1 : 24 exact matches, 1 two-step mismatch
23- 2- 0 : 23 exact matches, 2 one-step mismatches
23- 1 - 1 : 23 exact matches, 1 one-step mismatch, 1 two-step mismatch
23 - 0- 2 : 23 exact matches, 2 two-step mismatches
I hope this helps.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bennett" <info(a)familytreedna.com>
To: "'John R. Carpenter'" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Y-DNA question
> Hello John and Robin
>
> Using Y or mtDNA we can't tell if an exact match is a bother or a 10th
> cousins. We can tell if they are related, which is the first item of
> 'business' for us genealogists. After it's been established that 2
> people are related, it's time for the paper trail research tools to come
> back out and for you to figure out where this ancestral line links to
> yours.
>
> DNA isn't a substitute for genealogy, it's a supplement. You are also
> aware that DNA will 100% disqualify 2 people from being related
> (biologically) not withstanding unannounced adoptions or False
> paternity.
>
> We are by far the tightest on the 'willing to talk real science' of any
> of the companies that offer this service. That's because we work with a
> well noted population geneticist. His pages that supplement ours are
> listed here:
>
> http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/ftdna/TMRCA.html
>it's complete, if not good reading.
>
> E-mail any time.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bennett Greenspan
> Family Tree DNA
> www.FamilyTreeDNA.com
>
> "History Unearthed Daily"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John R. Carpenter [mailto:jrcrin001@cox.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:45 AM
> To: info(a)familytreedna.com
> Subject: Fw: Y-DNA question
>
>
> Dear Mr. Greenspan,
>
> Please review the following message.
>
> As much as I understand probability and drift in DNA and I am woefully
> lacking detail, the variance of close (first or second and probably a
> third
> cousin) cousins should be almost nil in a difference in the Y-DNA 25
> marker tests.
>
> Also the farther back in history the more likely you are to find someone
> you are related to. However, any male related to a common surnamed male
> ancestor born around 1899 and living today should have almost no
> variance in the 12 marker test and maybe one or less in the 25 marker
> test. This getting higher than a 90% match.
>
> And as I understand the basics the more you can match the more likely
> the relationship. This is where the 25 marker test has a higher
> probability (upto 90%) up to 14 or more generations to a common
> ancestor.
>
> Most of this is explained on the FAQ page or inferred. What am I
> missing to answer her question?
>
> I appreciate the help - once again.
>
> John R. Carpenter
> La Mesa, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Carpenter" <ANALYTIX(a)valley.net>
> To: <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 1:19 PM
> Subject: DNA Project
>
>
> > Hello John:
> > I am very enthusiastic about possibilities for the DNA project.
> > But
> each
> > time I read descriptions from the service providers, I grow more
> dubious.
> > The more I read, the more it sounds like an analysis that will end
> > up verifying with 50% assurance that we share an ancestor in the
> > 1600s, and
> 99%
> > assurance that we share some utterly anonymous ancestor in the 5th
> > century (or whatever). But we already know that!
> > I wish to sign up--and surely for the 25-marker test--but here's a
> > hypothetical question that I'd like someone to answer first: If I had
> > an unknown secret cousin (not a 15th cousin, an actual 1st cousin) who
>
> > also participated in the project (unbeknownst to me), WOULD or WOULD
> > NOT the
> DNA
> > test establish that relation (to some very high probability)? Then,
> > if
> for
> > a cousin, how about (say) a 2nd cousin? Or a 3rd cousin?
> > **** All the website description makes it sound VERY much like these
> > tests will prove very little (less than 50%??) about anything more
> > recent than a half-dozen generations, but quite a bit about very
> > distant relations.
> Maybe
> > this obscurity is just the DNA people trying to sound extra scientific
>
> > and erudite. Maybe. But I am pretty accomplished with probability
> > and statistics, and it's still obscure to me.****
> > You have mentioned someone at the DNA service who has been helpful.
>
> > Would you pose to him my "cousin question" and see what he says? Even
>
> > if
> he
> > is over-educated, he should be able to answer whether or not this test
>
> > can identify (say) a pair of 3rd cousins.
> > Robin
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Jay,
I appreciate the message.
There is only an Ella and Edward Carpenter buried there. No dates given.
Does any one know anything about them? Which line are they from?
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "JTHill" <jthill(a)inreach.com>
To: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: [CARPENTER] Cemetery in Hudson County, New Jersey
> Got this from another list but it has Lots & Lots of Names.
>
> Jay
>
> >
> >
> > The following article is from Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter and
> > is copyright 2002 by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published here with
> > the permission of the author.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > - Seeking Descendants of Those Buried in New Jersey Cemetery
> >
> > The New Jersey Turnpike Authority is seeking the descendants of those
> > buried in a potters' field cemetery in Hudson County. The turnpike needs
> > the land to build an interchange that will serve the Secaucus Transfer
> > train station near Laurel Hill. The cemetery on those grounds was used
> > by Hudson County's former poorhouse, mental hospital, and penitentiary.
> > More than 3,500 bodies may be in the ground, located behind a prison
> > annex and under an elevated section of highway.
> >
> > The authority will spend $3.89 million to locate and remove the remains,
> > transport them to a new location, and reinter them. A memorial will also
> > be placed at the new site. State Superior Court Judge Thomas Oliveri in
> > Hudson County is overseeing the move.
> >
> > Several weeks ago, Oliveri ordered the turnpike to run legal ads
> > searching for relatives of the deceased. Oliveri said in September that
> > he wants to hear from relatives of the deceased. So far, only six have
> > come forward, and only one has been confirmed as having a relative in
> > the cemetery.
> >
> > A complete list of those buried is available on the turnpike's Web site
> > at http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/burial%20list.pdf. If you have
> > ancestry in or around Hudson County, you should check this list for any
> > possible relatives.
> >
> > You will need Adobe's free Acrobat viewer installed in order to read
> > this list. If you do not have the viewer installed, first go to
> > http://www.adobe.com and download the free viewer there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________
I have a Chester Hiram Carpenter, his father
was Fredrick Lowell Carpenter, of East Providence
Rhode Island born 5-13-1889 and died on 1-15-1920,On
the death certificate it list his father as John P.
Carpenter and his mother as Dora Wilcox,is there any
way that you can help me find were John and Dora came
from.
Thank You
John in NH
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Got this from another list but it has Lots & Lots of Names.
Jay
>
>
> The following article is from Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter and
> is copyright 2002 by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published here with
> the permission of the author.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - Seeking Descendants of Those Buried in New Jersey Cemetery
>
> The New Jersey Turnpike Authority is seeking the descendants of those
> buried in a potters' field cemetery in Hudson County. The turnpike needs
> the land to build an interchange that will serve the Secaucus Transfer
> train station near Laurel Hill. The cemetery on those grounds was used
> by Hudson County's former poorhouse, mental hospital, and penitentiary.
> More than 3,500 bodies may be in the ground, located behind a prison
> annex and under an elevated section of highway.
>
> The authority will spend $3.89 million to locate and remove the remains,
> transport them to a new location, and reinter them. A memorial will also
> be placed at the new site. State Superior Court Judge Thomas Oliveri in
> Hudson County is overseeing the move.
>
> Several weeks ago, Oliveri ordered the turnpike to run legal ads
> searching for relatives of the deceased. Oliveri said in September that
> he wants to hear from relatives of the deceased. So far, only six have
> come forward, and only one has been confirmed as having a relative in
> the cemetery.
>
> A complete list of those buried is available on the turnpike's Web site
> at http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/burial%20list.pdf. If you have
> ancestry in or around Hudson County, you should check this list for any
> possible relatives.
>
> You will need Adobe's free Acrobat viewer installed in order to read
> this list. If you do not have the viewer installed, first go to
> http://www.adobe.com and download the free viewer there.
>
>
>
>
John in La Mesa wrote:
> My assumption is that the MA/RI/PA Carpenter branches are closely related to
> each other in England. If so, the 25 marker test is of more value than the
> 12 marker test.
That depends on how closely related. For example, take the two Williams
(of Rehoboth and Providence). They were evidently not brothers, but, if
they were first or second cousins, it is unlikely that a 25-marker test
would be able to distinguish between them. Even third cousins would
most likely be identical.
The value of 25 instead of 12 markers is mainly for two cases:
(1) where two lines have similar DNA purely by accident (and are not
really related after all). It is easier to come up with a fortuitous
combination of markers that nearly match if there are only 12 than if
there are 25.
(2) where two lines really are related, but by accident differ by one or
two mutations among the 12 markers.
> more accurate - the higher the probalbility. This narrows the search period
> (in generations and focus) for the common related ancestor.
Not much. See below.
> The 12 marker will indicate at wider range of probability to the common
> ancestor. Like within 7 to 24 generations for example.
Not even close. Suppose two people are chosen at random, and they
happen to match exactly at all 12 markers. With 95% confidence, you can
say their most recent common ancestor was no more than 62 generations
ago. Indeed, the median distance to the common ancestor is over 14
generations (which may seem odd, given that they have exactly the same
DNA as far as the measurement shows, but that's how it is).
> The 25 marker will indicate a closer range of probability to the common
> ancestor. Like within 2 to 4 generations for example.
Again, no. For 95% confidence, you have to go out to 30 generations.
The median is 7. Needless to say, with more markers, you are more
likely to see some difference (for randomly chosen test subjects, that
is), so you can't just compare the two sets of numbers I just gave.
> "accurate" depending on other factors. Ideally, there is a mathmatical
> calculation that can be used when you get enough DNA samples to narrow down
> within a generation or two to the common ancestor.
No, it doesn't help to have *more* samples unless you can choose them to
be from descendants of specifically the right ancestors with a known
relationship among them. In other words, you have to know who and when
the common ancestor was IN ADVANCE in order to plan the experiment to
get optimal information out of the testing.
> The following is from their FAQ (Frequent Asked Questions) page...
> Common Ancestor (MRCA) within a range of time backwards. Our 12 marker test
> gives you the following range: 14.5 generations (50%) likelihood & 48
> generations (90%) likelihood. Using our new 25 marker test the 50%
> likelihood drops to 7 generations and the 90% to 19.8 generations.
Note that it is easier to get 90% confidence than 95%, but that's
still a lot of generations.
The point is that the results of the tests are going to give statistical
answers to the underlying research questions. This is one of the reasons
why it is important to get multiple volunteers for each line. More
samples means better statistics.
On the other hand, up to a point, we already do know the answers. By
testing a judiciously selected group of descendants of each known
progenitor, it should be possible to reconstruct the DNA pattern of
that person (without exhumation!). It should thus be possible to tell
very quickly whether (for example) the two Williams were closely related
or not (even though detecting the difference between 1st cousins and
3rd cousins is definitely out of reach).
This is precisely where the value of 25 markers might become evident.
Comparing 12 markers might give an ambiguous answer where 25 could be
definitive. We won't know what's needed until the results start
appearing.
John Chandler
Hello List,
John F. Chandler brought up an important point regarding "accuracy" of DNA
measuring. How accurate or precise the testing is is important. It is all
based on the probability of odds.
The difference between the 12 marker and the 25 marker is a bit confusing.
I tried to make it simple. I am not a expert at DNA - Far from it! Let me
try again.
Most male MA/RI/PA Branch surnamed Carpenters living today are about 11
generations (plus or minus) from their English ancestor. I think the 25
marker test provides more detailed information on how our Carpenters are
interelated.
My assumption is that the MA/RI/PA Carpenter branches are closely related to
each other in England. If so, the 25 marker test is of more value than the
12 marker test.
By using 25 instead of 12 markers the relation to the common ancestor is
more accurate - the higher the probalbility. This narrows the search period
(in generations and focus) for the common related ancestor.
The 12 marker will indicate at wider range of probability to the common
ancestor. Like within 7 to 24 generations for example.
The 25 marker will indicate a closer range of probability to the common
ancestor. Like within 2 to 4 generations for example. It may be even more
"accurate" depending on other factors. Ideally, there is a mathmatical
calculation that can be used when you get enough DNA samples to narrow down
within a generation or two to the common ancestor. I do not even try to
understand the math.
The following is from their FAQ (Frequent Asked Questions) page. It is also
a bit confusing. Table one notes restates why the 25 marker is better.
http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html
"16. How far back can you determine a genetic link?
All genetic tests from Family Tree DNA will provide you a probability that
you and another person, who have an exact match, will have your Most Recent
Common Ancestor (MRCA) within a range of time backwards. Our 12 marker test
gives you the following range: 14.5 generations (50%) likelihood & 48
generations (90%) likelihood. Using our new 25 marker test the 50%
likelihood drops to 7 generations and the 90% to 19.8 generations. See the
new Table 1. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.familytreedna.com/faq2.html#table1
...
"FamilyTreeDNA's 25 marker test points to a much lower number of generations
to the most recent common ancestor than other commercially available tests.
We use exacting statistics appropriate for the non-independent transfer of
genetic material on the Y Chromosome. Table 2. Examples of previously tested
individuals. "
Hopefully I am not confusing people too much on the difference between the
two tests. If you have any questions plase let me know. If any one can
rephrase this or explain it better, please let us know!
I hope this helps,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Use the link below to join the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA project and purchase
your DNA test at group rates.
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=S82066
*************************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "John F. Chandler" <JCHBN(a)CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
To: "jrcrin001" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:58 PM
Subject: 90% accuracy?
> John,
> You wrote that the 25-marker test provides "better than a 90%
> accuracy over 14 generations." What did you mean by that? The
> word "accuracy" is usually reserved for the level of correctness of
> the measurements, i.e., the repeat counts in this case. You're
> obviously thinking of something else, but what?
> The advantages of 25 over 12 apply just the same for any depth of
> relationship. It is always better to have more information. The
> real issue is cost vs benefit, and it is too soon to know whether the
> 25-marker test will be absolutely essential or largely irrelevant --
> it could be either, depending on whether the main branches of Carpenters
> turn out to be closely related or sort-of related or not related at all.
>
> John Chandler
>
While skimming through old editions of the Ontario Register, I came across
this obit that may be of interest to someone.
"In Dundee, N.Y., at the residence of her son-in-law, John S. Beam, Mrs. Mary
Carpenter, widow of Jacob Y. Carpenter, aged 71 ys 5 ms 25 ds. Her maiden
name was Mary Hellems, and she was a sister of the late John Hellems, Esq. Of
this town and has many relatives in this section of Canada. We summarize
from the Dundee Record. She was born in Pa. In 1800. When two years of age
her parents removed to Welland where she remained until 1819 when she married
and removed to Dundee, N.Y. In 1832 she and her husband united with the
Baptist Church. Her husband died in 1861. She was the mother of four sons
and six daughters, all of whom survived her but one, who laid down his life
at Gettysburg." Welland Tribune, July 3, 1872. (Ontario Register, Vol. 3
(1970))
Flora
a descendant of Samuel and Roxalana Newton Carpenter
If it is possible is there anyway to get a tissue sample from either William
,Leagly for Dna testing >?
That would be a prime research for comparison the 2 Williams see if the are
related ?
John Carpenter
Walpole,NH
_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp
Dear Robin,
Where were you when we were talking about this in Clearwater, FL last
August? You ask the right questions!
There are 4 samples in process and some 17 others saying they are interested
in submitting. This is not bad since we are just going "public."
You wrote: "The value of the project will increase dramatically the more
participants we have." You are exactly on target. The more samples the
better the value of comparisons.
When people sign up on the web page for the test kits, they fill in the
basic information. There is a notes section which I encourage all to use.
Listing the CE CD RIN number or which branch they come from will really
help.
The Group Administrator only has access to this for comparison purposes.
Everyone is given and known as a code number otherwise.
When enough samples are collected we will post using those code numbers.
Those that wish to allow their names to be used will be contacted before we
post.
If they are in the CE CD or added later, I encourage them to place the
marker codes under a DNA section for future references.
In addition, people who submit samples can opt for being in a general pool.
There they will be notified if any one else matches (including
non-Carpenters), or closely matches the results. This by E-Mail only.
Sincerely,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Carpenter" <ANALYTIX(a)valley.net>
To: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: DNA Project
> Hello John:
> Thanks for the clarifications. Big help.
> It sounds like there are only a very small number of joiners so far.
> (Maybe as few as 4??) Is that right? The value of the project will
> increase dramatically the more participants we have. (If my $169 buys
> 5-or-6 comparisons that's not nearly so valuable as 50-or-60 comparisons
for
> the same $169.) So it pays to promote participation strongly. Toward
that
> end, I should think the issue of resolving some historically unclear
> relations may be more compelling (to some people) than, e.g., estimating
how
> may zillions of generations back we can find a common ancestor...an
ancestor
> who is going remain anonymous in any case.
> (Of course, a competing force in this matter is that a substantial
number
> of researchers have their own settled notion of who's who and what's
> what--who may have filled-in some "holes" with facts with assumptions of
> their own--and may experience some reluctance about a project that could
> dislodge their conviction.)
> Anyway, here's an idea/question; would it be useful to ask signers-up
to
> post their names publicly on the list? This would not help if in fact we
> only have 4-or-5 people (for the perceived value reason cited above.) But
> if we have a good list, and several new participants each week, perhaps
> there could be a bandwagon effect. (On the other hand, we wouldn't want
to
> drive people away if they do NOT want to post their name.)
> Robin
>
>
> At 03:26 PM 11/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Robin,
> >
> >"It would seem that any two present day Carpenter males would be able to
> >establish a genetic "distance" between them."
> >
> >Correct! If we had a Carpenter descendant from the Rehoboth, MA branch
and
> >one from the Providence, RI branch compare samples, they should (barring
> >adoptions, illegettimates, and such) have a common ancestor. This is the
> >current belief. DNA sampling (using the 25 marker test) allows more than
a
> >90% accuracy rate over 14 generations to the common ancestor.
> >
> >"Thus, every participant would find a quantifiable "distance" between
> >himself and every other participant. From such a matrix of "distances" I
> >should think it would become quite clear who belongs where in the master
> >tree."
> >
> >Correct! Boy, I wished I could have said this first! This is assuming
that
> >all participants have a common male ancestor. Science will confirm,
within
> >reason, the DNA-Y matches and correlations.
> >
> >"Finally, does this project offer any possibility for NON-Carpenter
> >linkages?"
> >
> >Yes. You can add your male DNA sample to the common pool for future
> >correlations. Using computer matching, if a male "Clark" matches or
closely
> >matches your male DNA-Y results - you will be notified. A release form
is
> >needed to place your results (by code number) into a common pool. See
the
> >web page below for details.
> >
> >I appreciate the input!
> >
> >John R. Carpenter
> >La Mesa, CA
> >
> >http://www.ftdna.com/description.html
> >Regarding 12/25 marker DNA- Y tests:
> >... tests the Y chromosome for genetic matches between males. Results are
> >placed in our Y-DNA database and when 2 people show the same identical or
> >near identical results, we will inform both parties if you have both
signed
> >the FTDNA Release Form. A perfect match of 25 markers means a lesser
number
> >of generations before a Most Common Recent Ancestor (MRCA) can be
> >determined. The customer receives a Certificate & report generally
> >describing Y-DNA sequencing and the meaning of probability between
matches.
> >
> >---- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robin Carpenter" <ANALYTIX(a)valley.net>
> >To: <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
> >Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:44 PM
> >Subject: DNA
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >Hello John:
> >> > The DNA project sounds great! But help me to understand
something....
> >> >
> >> > It seems to me there must be more info to be had from this project
> >than
> >> is being said. It would seem that any two present day Carpenter males
> >would
> >> be able to establish a genetic "distance" between them. That is, my
> >brother
> >> and I would prove to be nearly identical (in this DNA sense), while my
> >> cousin and I would be just a little less similar, 2nd cousins still
less
> >> similar, and so on. Thus, every participant would find a quantifiable
> >> "distance" between himself and every other participant. From such a
> >matrix
> >> of "distances" I should think it would become quite clear who belongs
> >where
> >> in the master tree. I realize there are minor random variations so the
> >> inference is imperfect, but wouldn't we expect a pretty clear
resolution
> >of
> >> dead ends??
> >> > Take my own case; recall that I have my dead-end Carman Carpenter
in
> >> Goshen then Minisink NY. Barring some weird historical quirk that we
know
> >> nothing about (e.g., that he moved there from Virginia the year before
he
> >> shows up in records, or an illegitimate birth to a Carpenter mother
etc),
> >> there are essentially three candidates for his father. If the DNA
project
> >> includes descendants from each of those three, mustn't we end up
knowing
> >> which line Carman must have been in? (And even if there is some
unknown
> >> historical quirk, as above, that should become obvious too.)
> >> > Finally, does this project offer any possibility for NON-Carpenter
> >> linkages? For instance, again with my Carman Carpenter, I've always
> >> suspected either his mother or grandparent would be a Carman. That
would
> >be
> >> a very valuable hypothesis to test.
> >> > Robin
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Dear Folks,
The person who sent that message out had a worm on his system. He is cleaning his system with the help of the System Administrator.
The worm which mimics and sends itself out was in the attachment called:
Document.doc.scr (50.8 KB)
Please be advised and keep your Anti-Virus programs updated.
Thank You,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Dear List,
I got the following message. It at first appears that I sent it to myself.
The attachment contains program code that my safety programs (antivirus, and such) identified as "hostile." Not a virus but program code to send information.
I am filing a complaint appropiately.
Thank you,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)twcny.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:44 AM
Subject: [CARPENTER] Re: GENEALOGY-DNA mailing list
> Hello List!
>
> For your Information ...
>
> For those who are interested in more details on Genealogy and DNA there is a Rootsweb list!
>
> The archives are at:
>
Hi John,
I just reviewed the information regarding the first marriage date for Cyrus CARPENTER. If the 6 Mar 1825 date is for his first marriage than there is a problem with his date of death which is also given as 6 Mar 1825.
Jack
Hello List!
For your Information ...
For those who are interested in more details on Genealogy and DNA there is a Rootsweb list!
The archives are at:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GENEALOGY-DNA/
How to join is at:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/GENEALOGY-DNA.html
It is interesting in a very detailed way. Most of the questions one would ask and more details are there on this Roots List.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: DNACousins(a)aol.com
To: jrcrin001(a)cox.net
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:38 PM
Subject: GENEALOGY-DNA mailing list
Hello, John --
I run a mailing list at RootsWeb for people interested in the potential of DNA testing for genealogy research. I monitor other web sites and mailing lists for mentions of this topic, and I saw your post on CARPENTER-L. If you're interested in discussing technical aspects of DNA testing for genealogy, I'd like to invite you to join our list and/or bring our mailing list to the attention of subscribers to your list. We're always interested in hearing about new projects, too.
You can browse past messages and sign up for the list at
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/GENEALOGY-DNA.html
Also, a couple of our list members maintain a list of surname projects, Chris Pomery at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~allpoms/genetics1a.html and Kevin Duerinck at http://www.duerinck.com/surname.html. They are good starting points for seeing what many other projects have done. I'm sure they'd be glad to publicize your project as well. If you have a web site ready, another list member, Pieter Cramwinckel has started a webring at http://j.webring.com/hub?ring=dnasurnameprojec. And still another list member, Alastair Greenshields, is working on an open access database http://www.ybase.org, where anyone can enter and search for Y chromosome marker matches.
Even if you don't get a project started right away, do consider preserving samples of DNA for future use.
Ann Turner DNACousins(a)aol.com
List Administrator
GENEALOGY-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com
DNA preservation kits: http://www.dnafiler.com
----Thanks for the updates more info like this is very helpful.
Just for the record the 1901 book The Carpenter Family in America ,was
written by Daniel Hoogland Carpenter
not Daniel C Carpenter
John in NH
_________________________________________________________________
Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
Hi Donna,
The costs are per person (per DNA-Y test) using a group rate.
A group is 4 or more (no limit) people sharing the paternal name. Since 4
people have already started the group, all others get a group discount. The
prices below reflect the group discount.
At this time we are inviting all Family Groups to submit one male Carpenter
DNA sample. This way the cost can be shared by the Family group.
This would be a interesting Christmas Present for the Family.
The goal is to get samples from the various Carpenter Branches and
sub-groups. When we can see which line has what markers we can compare to
see how far back is the common ancestor.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
You can sign up at:
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=E85540
Y-DNA -- Male 12 marker paternal test ..... $99.00 (Group Rate)
Y-DNAPlus -- Male 25 marker paternal test ..... $169.00 (Group Rate) *
*Preferred for testing of 14 generations or older relationships.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Cuzze" <dcvegas(a)lasvegas.net>
To: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>; <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] re: DNA-$Cost
> What makes up a group?
> Are you saying they will do everyone on the list for $169 ?
> Or is there a limit on the number of persons in a group?
> Donna
> Visit my home page: http://donnacuzze.com
> Email: dcvegas(a)lasvegas.net
>
>
Hi Flora,
Thank you for the marriage date. See below.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Modified Register for Cyrus CARPENTER-22036
First Generation
1. Cyrus CARPENTER-22036 was born on 5 Feb 1802 in Rehoboth, Bristol, MA.
He died on 6 Mar 1825 in Guilford, Windham, VT.
Number 2005 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 265.
Family on page 451 (# 648). A Farmer.
SEE: Genealogical & Personal Memoirs Relating to Families of MA. W.R.
Cutter,
1910, Lewis Historical publication Co., NY - Pages 836 & 837.
Cyrus married (1-MRIN:9008) Alvira Louisa GALE-30682 on 6 Mar 1825 in ,
Windham, VT. Alvira was born on 7 May 1808 in Guilford, Windham, VT. She
died on 12 Jul 1841 in , Windham, VT.
They had the following children:
+ 2 F i. Augusta Louisa CARPENTER-30683 was born on 25 Jun 1826.
3 M ii. Artemas Gale CARPENTER-30684 was born on 10 Sep 1828 in Guilford,
Windham, VT. He died on 10 Sep 1871 in Westfield, , MA.
4 M iii. Edward Cyrus CARPENTER-30685 was born on 29 Oct 1830 in Guilford,
Windham, VT.
+ 5 F iv. Mary Uletta CARPENTER-30686 was born on 31 Dec 1833.
6 F v. Catherine Jane CARPENTER-30687 was born on 24 Feb 1839 in Guilford,
Windham, VT. She died on 2 Oct 1841 in Guilford, Windham, VT.
Cyrus also married (2-MRIN:9009) Harriet NOYBS-30690 on 4 Jul 1843 in , ,
VT. Harriet was born about 1808 in , , VT.
Second Generation
2. Augusta Louisa CARPENTER-30683 (Cyrus) was born on 25 Jun 1826 in
Guilford, Windham, VT.
Augusta married (MRIN:12296) Jeremiah T. NOYBS-30688 on 15 Mar 1846 in ,
Windham, VT. Jeremiah was born about 1826 in , Windham, VT.
They had the following children:
7 F i. Emma E. NOYES-43702 was born on 4 Apr 1848.
Emma married (MRIN:16716) YAWKEY-43704 on 15 Dec 1869. YAWKEY was born about
1848.
8 M ii. Lindall T. NOYES-43705 was born in 1850. He died in 1851.
9 F iii. Mary McM NOYES-43706 was born in 1855. She died in 1872.
10 M iv. William NOYES-43707 was born in 1864. He died in 1864.
11 F v. Sarah A. NOYES-43708 was born in 1865.
Sarah married (MRIN:16717) C. W. RAY-43709 on 5 Sep 1888. C. W. RAY was
born about 1865.
5. Mary Uletta CARPENTER-30686 (Cyrus) was born on 31 Dec 1833 in Guilford,
Windham, VT. She died in , , MI.
E-MAIL: From: <Fjmcrae(a)cs.com>
To: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: [CARPENTER] Carpenter - Yawkey Marriage
The following appeared in the Genesee County, Michigan newspaper marriage
notices, 1850-1867:
17 Jan 1855, Samuel W. Yawkey, of Flint, to Mary U. Carpenter, daughter of
Gen. Carpenter, of Guilford, Vermont, in Guilford. (22 Jan 1855)
Citation: Detroit Society for Genealogical Research Magazine, Vol. 47, No.
3 (Spring 1984)
Flora McRae - a descendant of Samuel and Roxalana Newton Carpenter
Mary married (MRIN:12297) Samuel YAWKEY-30689 on 17 Jan 1855 in , , VT.
Samuel was born about 1833 in , , VT.
They had the following children:
12 M i. John C. YAWKEY-43712 was born on 23 Jul 1860.
13 M ii. Cyrus C. YAWKEY-43713 was born on 29 Aug 1862.
14 F iii. Mary E. YAWKEY-43714 was born on 16 Aug 1866.
Mary married (MRIN:16719) Frederick M. WHITE-43715 on 6 Jun 1889. Frederick
was born about 1866.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fjmcrae(a)cs.com>
To: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: [CARPENTER] Carpenter - Yawkey Marriage
> The following appeared in the Genesee County, Michigan newspaper marriage
> notices, 1850-1867:
>
> 17 Jan 1855, Samuel W. Yawkey, of Flint, to Mary U. Carpenter, daughter of
> Gen. Carpenter, of Guilford, Vermont, in Guilford. (22 Jan 1855)
>
> Citation: Detroit Society for Genealogical Research Magazine, Vol. 47,
No. 3
> (Spring 1984)
>
>
> Flora McRae
> a descendant of Samuel and Roxalana Newton Carpenter
>
> ______________________________
Hello,
Thanks to Phoebe Cortez an error regarding the Benjamin Carpenter who married Martha Weeks has been found.
The book "The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.Carpenter, 1901" has the wrong Benjamin listed. See details below.
Simply, the Benjamin who married Martha weeks was the son of Henry NOT Benjamin.
I hope this clears up some things!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Modified Register for Martha WEEKS-24165
First Generation
1. Martha WEEKS-24165 was born on 8 May 1785 in , Westchester, NY. She died on 19 Sep 1831 in Sommers, Westchester, NY.
Martha married (MRIN:9897) Benjamin CARPENTER-24291, son of Henry CARPENTER-22622 and Phebe DICKINSON-22629 (MRIN:9259), on 17 Feb 1803 in , Westchester, NY. Benjamin was born on 14 Oct 1775 in West Farms, Westchester, NY. He died on 17 Dec 1838 in Sommers, Westchester, NY.
Not listed except in notes in the book, The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.Carpenter, 1901.
He is confused with another Benjamin Carpenter in that book.
NOTE: MARRIAGE to Martha Weeks is RIGHT. The above book is wrong. It had the wrong Benjamin listed.
We have 2 Benjamin Carpenters born in Westchester county, NY.
The other one was born 14 Nov 1775 in Sommers. He died in Dec 1835. Son of Benjamin & Jane Edmunds. He is RIN 24164 in the CE CD 2001.
This one on 14 Oct 1775 in West Farms. He died 17 Dec 1838. Son of Henry & Phebe.
See notes below that show it was the Benjamin, son of Henry who married Martha Weeks.
JRC Nov. 2002.
!-E-MAIL: From: Jean Carlson ( j-carlson ) j-carlson(a)msn.com
To: John R. Carpenter
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002
Subject: Carpenters noted in the Hudson River Chronicle
Hi John,
I'm reading through an article & wonder if you've seen this & whether you have the 18 Carpenters noted in it?
Here is one:
"The Westchester Historian Volume 66 No. 4 Fall 1990, page 91
Notices in the Hudson River Chronicle - Deaths Dec 25, 1838
Carpenter, Benjamin died in Somers Dec 17, 1838, age 62. Member of Society of Friends."
If you've seen this source I won't bother copying & sending them to you. This Benjamin has dates similar to a
Benjamin Carpenter you once sent me who was born 1775 & died 1835.
To refresh your memory on those that I research...
HAWKS - HAWXHURST - IRELAND - BARTON
Jean Carlson
REPLY:
Dear Jean,
The dates are too close. While it may be a chance, they appear to be the same person.
The Westchester Historian Volume 66 No. 4 Fall 1990, page 91
Notices in the Hudson River Chronicle - Deaths
Dec 25, 1838
Carpenter, Benjamin died in Somers Dec 17, 1838, age 62. Member of Society of Friends.
I double checked the death date in the 1901 book and it does say 17 Dec 1835. My guess is that we may have found
a typo!
I will make a note regarding this.
And yes, I would be interested in seeing more. Okay to share on the Carpenter forum?
Good Ops!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
E-MAIL: From: MzCortez(a)aol.com
To: jrcrin001(a)cox.net
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: Check out Benjamin CARPENTER
New York Quakers
Chappaqua MM Vital Records, 1785-1897, 1810-1903; Family History Library Film #17288
Marriage Certificate Benjamin CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS, 17d 2m 1803
Whereas Benjamin CARPENTER son of Henry CARPENTER and Phebe his wife diseased of the County of
Westchester and state of New York and Martha WEEKS Daughter of James WEEKS and Sarah his wife of the
County and State Aforesaid having declared their Intentions of Marriage with Each other before two Monthly
Meetings of the people Called Quakers held at shapuquau in the state Aforesaid they having Concent of parents and
parties Concerned and Nothing Appearing to Obstruct their said proposals were allowed of by the Meeting Now
these are to Certify all whom it may Concern that for the full Accomplishment of their said Intentions this
Seventeenth Day of the Second month one thousand Eight Hundred and three they the said Benjamine
CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS Appeared in a public Meeting of said people at shapuqua Aforesaid and he the
said Benjamine CARPENTER taking the said Martha WEEKS by the hand did in a solemn manner openly Declare
that he took her to be his wife promising through Divine Assistance to be unto her A faithful and Loving Husband
untill Death seperates them or words to that Effect and then the said Martha WEEKS did in like manner Declare that
she took the said Benjamine CARPENTER to be her Husband promising through divine Assistance to be unto him
A faithful and loving wife untill Death Seperates them or words to that Import and Moreover they the said
Benjamine CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS she according to the custom of Marriage assuming the Name of her
husband as a further Confirmation thereof Did then to these presents Set their hands
Benjamine CARPENTER
Martha CARPENTER
and We whose Names are hereunto subscribed being present at the solemnization of said Marriage and subscription
have as Witnesses thereunto set our hands the Day and year above Writen
James WEEKS
Robert HALLOCK
Phebe WEEKS
Abraham WEEKS
Jesse UNDERHILL
Elizabeth CARPENTER
Benjamine WEEKS
Jacob UNDERHILL
Mary FOWLER
Robert CARPENTER
Stephen CARPENTER
Elizabeth COCK
James WEEKS
Sarah HALLOCK
Martha PEARCE
Jesse WEEKS
Mary WEEKS
Catherine CARPENTER
Benjamin and Martha had the following children:
+ 2 M i. Henry CARPENTER-24166 was born on 16 May 1804 and died on 6 May 1884.
3 M ii. Robert N. CARPENTER-24167 was born about 1807 in Sommers, Westchester, NY. He died in 1882.
Number 780 in the book, The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.
Carpenter, 1901. No Family listed.
E-MAIL: Thu, 18 May 2000 From: "Marcia Buffett" <pinezone(a)superior.net>
Dear John:
I've done abstracts of wills before where the dates and names are just
given. Do you do the same for indentures of property deeds?
Example:
Indenture of deed, dated May 7th, 1864, between Robert N. Carpenter and his
wife Betsey of Hope, Hamilton Co., NY, conveying 50 acres of land to
Danford A. Carpenter of Hope, Hamilton Co., NY for the sum of $75.00.
Recorded Jun 19, 1866, at Lake Pleasant Courthouse, Book 7 pages 435 and
436. ... Marcia.
(Maybe for this Robert?)
4 M iii. Robert Halleck CARPENTER-89495 was born on 1 Jul 1827 in Sommers, Westchester, NY.
Not listed in the book called: The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C. Carpenter, 1901.
E-MAIL: I have my great grandmother's
Carpenter family bible from New York. It lists my great grandmother
Sarah Carpenter b. 31 jan. 1867 and her siblings brother Stephen and
sisters mary Edith Evelyn. Their parents Robert Halleck Carpenter b. 1
July 1827 m. May 11 1853 nyc to Amy Thorne Griffen Dau. of Thomas T.
Griffen and Mary Miller Amy b. Feb.18 1829. Robert 's parents are listed
as Benjamin and Martha. He died 17, 12m, 1838 aged 63 1mo. 3d (Born Nov.
14, 1775?) Martha D.19 of 9mo. 1827 aged 46 4mo. 11d.(born may 8 1781?)A
slip of paper in it lists a blacksmith bill of 17.06$ and on the
reverse what appear to be death dates Martha in 1821 aged 46 James
1859aged 53 Joseph aged 36 in 1859 and Benjamin age 63 1838. Do any of
these appear in your data base? They were all Quakers for many
generations. The Sarah Carpenter listed 1st Married Henry Warrington
Gillingham at Meeting in NYC in 1897.These Quakers lived in Westchester
county and the Griffens in Orange and may have started out on Long Is
before settling in 9 partners . If any of this is of interest to add to
your data base I can send details. If you can connect them I would love
the info as I can't get past Benj. and Martha. Thanks for the site. Tina
Foss at sbmission(a)aol.com
MORE:
From: <SBMission(a)aol.com>
To: <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Carpenter Bible
Dear John, Yes I am still at this address. My Robert Halleck Carpenter was not the son of
Wright Carpenter but the child of Benjamin Carpenter and Martha Weeks. From the dates I have
for them I was able to reconstruct the line thru various Quaker records. The only online record
had Robert's birthdate off by 20 years as someone must have thought it impossible for Martha to
have Henry and then no children for all those years and suddenly have Robert.I had always
heard Robert had a much older brother who could not take over his care when his mother died
shortly after his birth. His father died when he was young leaving the orphaned Robert to be
brought up by aunts in Westchester Co. which his family had helped settle.
I was also told that the family was descended from the Kips of new Amsterdam. Martha Weeks
grandmother was a Kip. Wright Carpenter appears to be a close cousin of my line whose child
has the same name as my ancestor. The Carpenters seem to like Benjamin and Robert and Sarah
as names and repeat them often!
Thanks for keeping me posted on the Carpenter clan. Would you like a copy of what I have so
far? Also, is La Mesa by San Diego? I was down there yesterday and thought I saw a road sign
for La Mesa but am not really familiar with the area as I grew up here on the central coast in
Santa Barbara County. My grandmother told me she had Carpenter cousins here in California as
her aunt who married a Burr and moved to San Jose at the turn of the century. (Can one use that
phrase now that the century has turned again?)Our family lost track of that San Jose bunch after
they moved from New York. Thanks for all the info.
-Tina Foss in Santa Barbara.
Second Generation
2. Henry CARPENTER-24166 (Martha) was born on 16 May 1804 in Sommers, Westchester, NY. He died on 6 May 1884.
Number 779 in the book, The Carpenter Family in america by Daniel C.
Carpenter, 1901. Family and notes on page 257.
Henry married (MRIN:9898) Eliza MILLER-46032, daughter of Abraham MILLER-46033 (MRIN:17463), on 18 Oct 1826 in , , NY. Eliza was born on 9 Jul 1807 in , , NY. She died on 20 Nov 1878 in , , NY.
They had the following children:
5 F i. Esther CARPENTER-46034 was born on 23 Dec 1827 in , , NY.
Number 1380 in the book, The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.
Carpenter, 1901.
Esther married (MRIN:17464) Ira G. TOMPKINS-46038 in 1856 in , , NY. Ira was born about 1827 in , , NY.
6 M ii. James W. CARPENTER-46035 was born on 1 Jun 1831 in , , NY. He died on 10 Oct 1862.
Number 1381 in the book, The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.
Carpenter, 1901.
James married (MRIN:17465) Margaret PUGSLEY-46037 in 1861 in , , NY. Margaret was born about 1831 in , , NY.
7 F iii. Martha E. CARPENTER-46036 was born on 15 Aug 1841 in , , NY.
Number 1382 in the book, The Carpenter Family in America by Daniel C.
Carpenter, 1901.
----- Original Message -----
From: MzCortez(a)aol.com
To: jrcrin001(a)cox.net
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: Check out Benjamin CARPENTER
Click here: Benjamin CARPENTER
New York Quakers
Home
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Monthly Meetings Index
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Marriage Certificate Submission Form
Submit Records
Queries
Chappaqua MM Vital Records, 1785-1897, 1810-1903; Family History Library Film #17288
Marriage Certificate Benjamin CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS, 17d 2m 1803
Whereas Benjamin CARPENTER son of Henry CARPENTER and Phebe his wife diseased of the County of Westchester and state of New York and Martha WEEKS Daughter of James WEEKS and Sarah his wife of the County and State Aforesaid having declared their Intentions of Marriage with Each other before two Monthly Meetings of the people Called Quakers held at shapuquau in the state Aforesaid they having Concent of parents and parties Concerned and Nothing Appearing to Obstruct their said proposals were allowed of by the Meeting Now these are to Certify all whom it may Concern that for the full Accomplishment of their said Intentions this Seventeenth Day of the Second month one thousand Eight Hundred and three they the said Benjamine CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS Appeared in a public Meeting of said people at shapuqua Aforesaid and he the said Benjamine CARPENTER taking the said Martha WEEKS by the hand did in a solemn manner openly Declare that he took her to be his wife promising through!
Divine Assistance to be unto her A faithful and Loving Husband untill Death seperates them or words to that Effect and then the said Martha WEEKS did in like manner Declare that she took the said Benjamine CARPENTER to be her Husband promising through divine Assistance to be unto him A faithful and loving wife untill Death Seperates them or words to that Import and Moreover they the said Benjamine CARPENTER and Martha WEEKS she according to the custom of Marriage assuming the Name of her husband as a further Confirmation thereof Did then to these presents Set their hands
Benjamine CARPENTER
Martha CARPENTER
and We whose Names are hereunto subscribed being present at the solemnization of said Marriage and subscription have as Witnesses thereunto set our hands the Day and year above Writen
James WEEKS
Robert HALLOCK
Phebe WEEKS
Abraham WEEKS
Jesse UNDERHILL
Elizabeth CARPENTER
Benjamine WEEKS
Jacob UNDERHILL
Mary FOWLER
Robert CARPENTER
Stephen CARPENTER
Elizabeth COCK
James WEEKS
Sarah HALLOCK
Martha PEARCE
Jesse WEEKS
Mary WEEKS
Catherine CARPENTER
Hi Holly,
If your husband was a Carpenter, your son would carry his (paternal) DNA.
Since your husband's last name is Law, your son carries the Law paternal
DNA.
If you have a brother, he would have a portion of the same DNA from his
father, grandfather, great grandfather and so on.
You probably remember X (female) and Y (male) chromosomes?
Humans have 23 pairs, 22 in order of decreasing size followed by and X or Y
chromosomes to determine sex?
The DNA testing is done on part of the Y (male) chromosome. Either 12 or 25
paternal gene markers. The 25 marker test is over 90% accurate for over 14
generations, which is ideal.
We need only one male from each family group for testing. This way the
costs can be shared.
More data below.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Carpenter Family DNA Project
aka
Carpenter Cousins Surname Project
We are now accepting DNA samples from any male Carpenter Family members
interested in
using this new technology to assist in their efforts to ascertain their
ancestry. These tests can
only be done on all-male Carpenter direct descendants, thus only males still
carrying the
Carpenter surname (or Carpentier, Carpender, Charpentier or similar).
If you are not such a Carpenter, you may have a close relative who is, which
would in essence
verify your own connections, and other relatives.
The DNA testing Lab we use is, FamilyTree DNA. They have a group rate which
charges
$99 for the basic 12 marker test at this writing, and $169 for an extended
25 marker test. If
these prices change, you will be advised when you place your order with us.
To get these
special group prices, your kit must be ordered through us.
The testing is done on DNA from the "Y chromosome", which is only found in
males. This
DNA is passed directly from father to son, with no input from the female
parent. These
"markers" remain virtually identical for many generations, with only very
slight mutations
over time. Thus, anyone descended directly, all-male, from someone up to at
least 500 years
ago will have extremely similar Y-DNA markers.
The advantage in an extended 25 marker test is that it may provide a closer
idea of where the
relationship may be.
The testing procedure is very simple, amounting to brushing the inside of
the cheek with a
sterile brush provided in the kit. Complete instructions, an invoice and a
waiver form also
come with the kit.
The goal is to establish "Y-DNA footprints" of several Carpenter Branches in
America and
other countries. Your test may be reasonably expected to ascertain that we
have a common
family progenitor who with others may "match." This proving an earlier
connection to any
Carpenter already tested.
They cannot show exactly what this connection is, nor the lineage back to
the progenitor, from
your earliest known. However, they can certainly narrow down your
possibilities for further
research.
For example, if you have a "dead end" Carpenter, it can prove if you are
associated with other
Carpenter Lines or one of several others.
The DNA kits, when ordered, are sent out directly by the Lab. They are
returned directly as
well. Results are provided directly to you, and also the group
Administrator.
The Lab reviews the results not only for matches, but close similarities,
and notifies you of the
earliest known ancestry of any that are found. Your results are also kept
for further
matches in the future.
Your own identity is kept confidential if you prefer, only your early known
ancestry being
provided to others that match.
It is certainly hopeful that this would not only be helpful to those who
participate, but also
establish many heretofore unknown-relationships between any of the early
Carpenters
Families that came to America, stayed in England or went elsewhere.
You can sign up at:
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=E85540
Y-DNA -- Male 12 marker paternal test ..... $99.00 (Group)
Y-DNAPlus -- Male 25 marker paternal test ..... $169.00 (Group) *
*Preferred for testing of 14 generations or older relationships.
You will need a credit card to pay for the test kit. Please follow the
simple instructions.
If you are in the CE CD 2001 or you know which Carpenter Branch you are in,
please
place this in the notes when you register.
The main Family Tree DNA web page is at:
http://www.ftdna.com/
Carpenter Cousins Surname Project
http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?count=3&group=Carpenter
I encourage at least one male from each Carpenter Family group to submit a
sample.
Sharing the costs within each Carpenter Family Group will help.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
1 Nov. 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cricket" <cricket(a)rjsonline.net>
To: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] re: Carpenter DNA-Y testing
> What is this for... and from which male of the family? My brother from a
Carpenter father, or
> my Son who is of me... a Carpenter mother?
>
> Just curious
>
> Holly Carpenter-Law
>
>
>
> "John R. Carpenter" wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > In each family group we need only one male DNA sample and the cost can
be shared by many.
> >
> > I agree that the Y-DNAPlus -- Male 25 marker paternal test is the best
way to go.
> >
> > Hopefully we then can determine the relations between the various
Carpenter Branches.
> >
> > You can sign up at:
> >
> > http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=E85540
> >
> > Y-DNA -- Male 12 marker paternal test ..... $99.00 (Group)
> > Y-DNAPlus -- Male 25 marker paternal test ..... $169.00 (Group)
> >
> > "Join Code" is S82066. (if needed)
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > John R. Carpenter
> > La Mesa, CA
> >
> > ---
> > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
Yes, it is the same company. The main Family Tree DNA web page is at:
http://www.ftdna.com/
Carpenter Cousins Surname Project
http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?count=3&group=Carpenter
I encourage at least one male from each Carpenter Family group to submit a sample.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Fordjerryfay(a)aol.com
To: jrcrin001(a)cox.net
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Carpenter DNA-Y testing
John,
Is this the same DNA service that has recently done Jim Edward Carpenter's test and is now testing Art Carpenter? Jim has more info.
Hope things are going well for you.
Jerry & Fay
----Upon further investigation I found Mary Yawkey carpenter she was grand
daughter of Gen Benjamin Carpenter. Her Father is Cyrus Carpenter & Alvira
Louisa Gale. Mary was born in Guilford Vt December 31, 1833 She had 3 sons
also
John L. Carpenter
Walpole,NH
_________________________________________________________________
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Information
This is the Carpenter Cousins Rootsweb. Since many Zimmermans became Carpenters, Both are discussed here along with related DNA information.