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Document 7501 deserves mention also because it mentions Shalbourne John
Briant
in 1614 who should be the father of Rehoboth William's wife. It provides a
few small
sociological insights. Money was owed to Briant by the Bennets who were
dealing in cloth. The phrase 'in the shop' is mentioned indicating
the Bennets were merchants in town. That they owed money to the Briants
suggests the Briants were not doing badly themselves.
BC
One will among the abstracts was no. 10879 (year 1613) concerning
a Edward Shadwell of Great Bedwyn, the next town to Shalbourne.
A William Carpenter is named and he must be assumed as a resident
of Great Bedwyn. This may be an important clue as to the residence
of William Carpenter senior. We know Rehoboth William
resided in the next town from 1625. Shadwell was
a 'husbandman' sheep rancher. All the towns in question were basically
satellite towns of Hungerford. A good assumption is the family originated
there.
BC
The Dummers who had financed the Bevis voyage were related to Stephen
Bachilier who was in turn an employee and intimate of Lord Delaware himself.
All these people were related and interrelated. The ship 'Plough' that took
people to Bermuda seems to have been the 'Plough', which took people on the
Plough Company journey to New England. In all these endeavors there was a
strong economic element. The plough Company referred to themselves as a
company of 'husbandmen' who were embarking on a sheep and cattle ranching
enterprise. These people and their plans seem to have grown out of the
Virginia Company. Many of the Bevis passengers were headed for the Newberry
ranching endeavor. Of course the Carpenters choose Weymouth and eventually
Rehoboth. However now we have seen their connections go back to the original
Virginia Company scheme.
BC
Gene, although the scenario that I have reported on is yet factually
unproven, too many of the evidentiary puzzle pieces are now beginning to fit
together. Sorry you were not the one to find them.
Regretfully,
Bruce Carpenter
Re: [CARPENTER] new Shalbourne data !!!
<< Rehoboth Carpenter ancestry is quickly coming into focus. ... Rehoboth
William Carpenter's English roots are greatly clarified. ... Robert Carpenter
of Shalbourne in 1609. ... [N]earby ... Hungerford ... [is] the probable
origin of this Carpenter group. ... [E]arliest Carpenter, Thomas, ... 1524.
... His later descendant, also a Thomas Carpenter. ... In 1625 this later
Thomas Carpenter leaves his estate to an Alice Carpenter. ... This might
easily be the Alice Carpenter noted in a Shalbourne burial document
(Zubrinsky) for 1637/8. ... The most likely line of descent was from Thomas
Carpenter the son of Roger 'the spicer' Carpenter and his descendants that
spread into Newberry, Reading and adjacent areas in the late 1400s and early
1500s. These new documents will only be the beginning of a steady stream of
material that will become available and clarify this obvious conclusion. >>
WHOA, HOSS!!!
Congratulations and thanks, Bruce, for introducing an excellent avenue of
Carpenter research; it deserves serious attention and may produce results we
can all celebrate.
Presently, the Carpenters' English ancestry--unestablished beyond William Sr.
of Shalbourne and Wherwell and Richard of Amesbury--is heavily contaminated
by speculation and distortion. It would be extremely unfortunate if elements
of the old orthodoxy (regarding Robert of Marden, for example) were simply to
be replaced by a new, equally speculative one.
I fear that an episode of "irrational exuberance" has caused you to overstate
the implications of your findings. Nothing substantive has yet "com[e] into
focus" or been "greatly clarified," and use of the word "probable" in
describing the Rehoboth Carpenters' origin is not yet warranted ("possible"
is certainly not far-fetched). It remains to be seen if Robert of Shalbourne
(1609) was related to Thomas of Hungerford (1625) or if either was kin to
William of Rehoboth and his father. To say without equivocation that this
Thomas was the descendant of the earlier one (1524) is presently
unsupportable. Based on the evidence presented, phrases such as "might
easily be" and "most likely" are highly premature. The surname Carpenter was
too common and forenames Thomas and Alice too popular to serve as the basis
for anything other than further research.
As to the Hungerford Carpenters' "most likely" descent from those of
"Newberry, Reading and adjacent areas in the late 1400s and early 1500s,"
let's take one generation at a time. Until the paternal grandparents of
William of Rehoboth have been established, it serves no good purpose to
speculate about earlier generations. If the predicted "steady stream of
material" does "clarify th[e] obvious conclusion" that the Rehoboth
Carpenters descend from identifiable 15th- and 16th-century woolen merchants,
I'll be the first to congratulate you. In the meantime, it is a conclusion
whose obviousness continues--as a matter of healthy skepticism--to elude me.
Far from minimizing the potential implications of this line of research, I am
excited by the prospect that it may bear fruit. I do worry, though, that
your incautious choice of words threatens to create a new "bandwagon," onto
which it is premature to jump.
Gene Zubrinsky
Ojai, Calif.
For a quick education re. Virginia Company
and Lord Delaware see
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/D/1601-1650/virginia/chart_i.htm
Keep in mind that Lord Delaware was the local land magnate in
Wherwell where Rehoboth William and father briefly resided before
the trip to Massachusetts. My suspicion was previously that
they had some tie to the goode Lord Delaware. I suspect that the
William in the charter was Rehoboth William's father and the Thomas in the
charter
was Hungerford Thomas Carpenter. Thomas was probably Rehoboth William's
grandfather. That Thomas and William were charter members
of the Virginia Company is of course a great honor for our family.
Sincerely,
Bruce Carpenter
Among those listed in the charter for the Virginia
Company of London (chartered for new world colonization etc
in 1606) was a Thomas Carpenter and a William Carpenter!!!!!!
Recall what I was saying about possible Carpenter links to
Lord Delaware and Wherwell??? This tidbit needs to be
researched. See the list at
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7003/vacompany.html
Sincerely,
Bruce Carpenter
Clinton, WA
Nara, Japan
All the will evidence for Carpenters in the late 1400s to early
1500s show a decided generational distribution. The clothier Thomas
Carpenter of Reading was active to about 1500 when an entirely new
generation of clothier Carpenters takes over. There was the John who was son
of Reading Thomas. There was the Hungerford Thomas active in 1524. To this
group we should add Upton Scudamore Robert, also in a clothier related
business. All these people share geography, business, given and family name.
The earliest of the group was a Roger Carpenter of Newberry, himself surely
a clothier. Roger, Thomas, William, Robert and John are given names repeated
again and again. The Marden Carpenters also seem to have preceeded by a
Thomas Carpenter, who had title to the rectory and possibly the land
connected to it:
"In 1534 the prior of Bradenstoke let the rectory (Marden rectory) to Thomas
Carpenter at L.8 yearly, a rental which remained constant throughout the
16th century and earlier 17th centuries." (P.121)
BC
Alice Carpenter who died in Shalbourne in 1637/8 (Zubrinsky)
might well have been Rehoboth William's grandmother. The data
that I introduced points to no Carpenters in Shalbourne prior to
1600. While evidence has Carpenters in nearby Hungerford in early
1500s. The assumption would be a move of
sons from a more heavily populated urban
center to a less populated town. Hungerford to Shalbourne. Likewise
Hungerford Thomas Carpenter, as cloth merchant, would have
been a man of some means, but perhaps not enough to
go around for all his descendants. Hence the Carpenters
arrive in Massachusetts with the telltale signs(books etc) of yeoman
money, but without the money. Someone a generation or so back had means.
Alice was the wife of Hungerford Thomas Carpenter who dies in 1625.
Did she then go to live with her Shalbourne children? Was the Robert
Carpenter noted in Shalbourne for 1609 a brother of William senior?
Alice dies in 1637/8 and then family responsibilities disappear for a move
to Massachusetts Bay.
BC
I can sure relate to that Jeramiah. I have been subscribed to this site for
about 4 years now, and still can't link up any of my Carpenters. It has been
a while so I'm going to try again.
My Carpenters were in Erie Kansas in 1903. That is where my grandmother Pearl
Marie Carpenter Buchanan was born. As far as her parents, they were John
Wesley Carpenter and Ida Agnes Ayres. I have no idea as to where or when they
were born or died. I found the name of her mother on the back of a picture
that was given to my mother years back.
My grandmother had an older sister by the name of Vera Carpenter that lived
in California, I believe it was in the city Pasadena. I never knew her
married name. Their mother passed away when grandmother was quite young, and
grandmother was sent to live with another family. They didn't find each other
until the early 1960s. I remember Vera bringing a grand daughter with her to
visit when I was real young. I think her name was Patricia.
I know there was at least one other sibling, I think his name was John. They
never located him.
If you can add anything to this, I would be truly grateful.
Patty
Rehoboth Carpenter ancestry is quickly coming into focus now with the online
publishing of English records. While problems remain, the overall problem of
Rehoboth William Carpenter's English roots are greatly clarified by the
Abstracts of Probate Documents for Shalbourne and adjacent areas in Wilts,
Hamps and Berks,
seen at www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BRKwills/
Document 10419 shows a Robert Carpenter of Shalbourne in 1609. The documents
for the nearby city of Hungerford reveal the probable origin of this
Carpenter group. Document
10164 shows the earliest Carpenter, Thomas, for 1524. The Hayward subject of
this document is a cloth merchant. Thomas Carpenter should have been in a
related business. His later descendant, also a Thomas Carpenter, in various
documents is a named "dyer". In 1625 this later Thomas Carpenter leaves his
estate to an Alice Carpenter in document 7570. This might easily be the
Alice Carpenter noted in a Shalbourne church burial document (Zubrinsky) for
1637/8. All of the relevant documents show connections to cloth merchants
and underline the theme I have been reiterating for two years now That the
Massachusetts Carpenters were the descendants of English cloth merchants.
The documents also reveal Batt and Briant family information. The most
likely line of descent was from Thomas Carpenter the son of Roger 'the
spicer' Carpenter and his descendants that spread into Newberry, Reading and
adjacent areas in the late 1400s and early 1500s. These new documents will
only be the beginning of a steady stream of material that will become
available and clarify this obvious conclusion. See my website at
http://pony.tezukayama-u.ac.jp/carp/CLERK.htm
Bruce Carpenter
Clinton, Washington
Nara, Japan
Lots of interesting info about the Carpenters out there. I am certain mine
will surface some day. I really enjoy the info even when I can't relate it
directly to mine. Thanks for sharing.
jeramiah
This came through on another list. Perhaps some "Southern" Carpenters
searching this family.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#6142: History of Bourbon, Scott, Harrison and Nicholas Counties,
Kentucky,
ed. by William Henry Perrin, O. L. Baskin & Co., Chicago, 1882. p.
453.
[Bourbon County] [Paris City and Precinct] CAPT. H. M. CARPENTER,
farmer;
P. O. Paris; the owner and proprietor of "Prospect Hill" was born in
Carlisle, Nicholas County, March 9, 1842; son of Dr. J. H. Carpenter and
Mary Martin. Our subject remained at home until the outbreak of the war,
when he donned the "gray" and enlisted in the 2nd Ky. Infantry, Co. F,
July, 1861, and served until the close, coming out with the rank of
Captain, having passed through the different grades of rank until he was
placed in command of his company; he participated in all battles in
which
his regiment was engaged, and was thrice wounded, and at Fort Donelson
was taken prisoner and confined in Federal prison for eight months, and
upon his release joined his command and did effective service as an
officer, and manifested his allegiance to the cause he espoused by four
years of active service; upon his return home from the war he resumed
agricultural pursuits, and was married the following year, Jan. 1866, to
Mary Osborne, daughter of Charles and Melvina (Walton) Osborne; he was
born 1808, in Charlotte County, Va.; she, 1810, in Mason County, Ky.,
the parents of Charles were Daniel and Martha (Morgan) Osborne; the
parents of Melvina were John and Susan (Anderson) Walton; shortly after
the marriage of Mr. Carpenter, he moved to Mason County, this State, and
engaged in farming; remaining here until March, 1881, when he located on
the Douglass Lewis farm, which he now owns, consisting of 230 acres of
choice land; his residence for location is one of the finest in the
country; of seven children born to him, five are living, viz: Ida M.,
Melvina, Judith R.,
Maude and John Walton; the father of H. M. was born Sept. 24, 1815, in
Fleming County, Ky.; son of William, who married a Miss Wilson. William
Carpenter was a native of Yew York, and of English descent; the mother
of our subject, Mary Martin, was born March 10, 1821; in Nicholas
County; daughter of Edmond and Rebecca (Stitt) Martin; eight children
were born to William Carpenter, viz: William, Sallie, John, Amanda,
Julia, J. H.,
Flemming and Jane; Flemming settled in Nodaway County, Mo., all others
in Nicholas County; J. H. continued a constant resident in Nicholas
County,
until October 1881, when he located in Lafayette County, Mo., and is
engaged in farming, and in the occasional practice of his profession;
ten children were born to him, viz: James A., William, Laura, James,
Edmond, Ella, Sanford, Mattie, Beauregard and H. M.; Mattie married to
Conway; William and James reside in Mason County, Sanford, in Nicholas;
Edmond, in Florida; H. M. in Bourbon County; the others are deceased;
Mr. and Mrs.
Carpenter are members of the Christian Church; Mrs. Carpenter's father
was an Elder of that organization for forty years.
http://www.naisp.net/~rscanlon/ This approach to Carpenter
history seemed interesting with various economic
details from the 1800s. My own Carpenters were
making boots in nearby Worcester MA at the same time.
Bruce
Clinton, WA
Does anyone know who are the children of Orrin and Delana Carpenter. Orrin
was born in 1797 in Vermont and Delana was born in 1800 In MA. Would
appreciate any info you may have on this family.
jeramiah
I was recently given a book titled "Jonathan Carpenter's Journal," an
annotated transcription of Jonathan (ABC's #1545) journal of 1774-1783, by
Miriam and Wes Herwig, published 1994. Perhaps others are familiar with
this volume, but it is new to me. It recites Jonathan's travels between
Rehoboth MA and Randolph VT, as well as his 2 years as prisoner of war in
England...as extensively reported in ABC pp 219-229. The book also shows a
number of interesting photos, including of an inscribed powder horn,
Jonathan's tavern in Randolph Center, his grandfather clock, several
descendants, and Jonathan's tombstone. Several of the footnotes give quite
helpful historical context and family notes.
The book is produced by Greenhill Books, Randolph Center VT 05601.
One note (p. 110) says "Church records show that Sidney Fielder of
Pembroke NH married Orinda Carpenter Dec 4, 1818, but Amos B. Carpenter
apparently mistranscribed the name as Sylvia Kidder in "A Genealogical
History of the Rehoboth Branch of the Carpenter Family in America." The
text also says that Sidney and Orinda Fielder "...moved to Newark NJ, and
then to Illinois," adding the Illinois move to ABC's account of their moving
to Newark.
This Orinda is ABC's #3302, but seems clearly to be a female rather than
a male. ABC's info (p. 373) should be annotated accordingly.
Robin
Regarding the wife of William Henry CARPENTER (son of Thomas of Henry Co
GA). A copy of the Heritage of Clay Co ALA states his wife was NANCY
Garrett. I show her listed as MARY JANE GARRETT based on the following info
from another researcher:
(written)Page No: 18 Supervisor's Dist No: 2 Enumeration Dist No: 35
Township: Beat No 8 Brownshill County: Clay State: AL
Date: 22 Jun 1880 Enumerator: M W WHATLEY
Dwelling No: 143 Family No: 143 (printed)Page No: 56
CARPENTER Mary J W F 46 W Keeping HouseW GA GA GA
CARPENTER Zackariah W M 18 SON S Farmer R W AL GA GA
Neighbors: MCCAIN, GARRETT, HOLCOMB, QUARLES, JONES
COZA, ROZELL, RICE, STEWART, ROZELL
and also with the GARRETT family census of :
1850 LINCOLN CO GA CENSUS:
359 375 GARETT MARTHA 48 F W SC b.1802
359 375 GARETT MARY A. 17 F W SC b. 1833
359 375 GARETT JANE 8 F W GA b. 1842
The Heritage of Clay Co ALA references Mrs. John F. SHADDIX (Zella Carpenter
Shaddix) and "My Ancestry," M.B. Carpenter Ross
The article states Nancy and Wm H. were listed in the 1850 and 1860
Talladega Co ALA Census. Can anyone tell me which is correct?
Descendants of William Henry Carpenter
1 CARPENTER, William Henry b: 1825 in Henry Co., GA >1840 to Talladega/Clay
AL d: Bet. 1861 - 1865 in CFArmy Shelbyville, TENN CENSUS:: 1850 Talladega
ALA Census
.... +GARRETT, MARY Jane b: February 15, 1835 in Gwinnet Co., GA d: Aft.
1880 in prob ALA Father: Elijah GARRETT Mother: Julia Ann Eliza PARKER m:
January 01, 1854 in Lineville, ALA
. 2 CARPENTER, Francis William Henry b: May 28, 1859 in AL prob. d: Aft.
1895 in Clay Co, Ala bur: Olive Branch
. 2 CARPENTER, Zachariah R. b: December 1861 in ALA d: Aft. 1900
Donna Cuzze
GENEALOGY PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/donnacarpenter.geo
VEGAS HOME PAGE: http://donna_carpenter.tripod.com/index.html
EMAIL: dcvegas(a)lasvegas.net
Information
This is the Carpenter Cousins Rootsweb. Since many Zimmermans became Carpenters, Both are discussed here along with related DNA information.