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Reply to message #2
<< In the the Bevis record below, Dummer's Bishopstoke origin (connection)
is cited. At
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/1339/littlefield/TheBevis1638.html
"Dummer, Richard 40 ("gentleman, of New England") of Bishopstoke, county
Hampshire ". >>
If you'll notice, your online source puts quotation marks around only
"gentleman, of New England." The rest was added by the compiler (as it
happens, so was "gentleman"). My facsimile copy of the Bevis passenger list
clearly says, "Richard Dumr [line over 'm,' superscript 'r'] of New England"
(no "gentleman," let alone "Bishopstoke"). This is confirmed by Samuel G.
Drake ("The Founders of New England," NEHGR 14[1860]:337) and Peter W.
Coldham (THE COMPLETE BOOK OF EMIGRANTS, 1607-1660 [Baltimore, 1987], 196).
<< Another speculative point is that a William Carpenter, with a wife Alice
and
daughter Alice, went to Virginia in 1623 or about. >>
It would be foolish not to investigate this to the extent possible. But
given the extreme popularity in England during this period of the names
William and Alice and that the Carpenter surname was hardly distinctive, I
can't get too excited about it. If this were "our" William, one wonders why
he wasn't accompanied by his namesake son, then aged about 18.
Reply to message #3
<< The following is from the Oxford English Dictionary tertiary "of"
citation. ... "III. Of origin or source. Indicating the thing or person
whence anything originates, comes, is acquired or sought. 9. a. Expressing
racial or local origin, descent, etc.: after the vbs. arise, be, come,
descend, spring, be born, bred, propagated, and the like." >>
A partial dictionary definition of the word "of" is irrelevant, as is how one
might answer the question, "Where are you from?" The BEVIS passengers gave
their respective residences as they were prior to embarkation. (See, above,
actual wording of the Richard Dummer entry in the BEVIS passenger list.) The
duration thereof can't be discerned from the passenger list. I object, not
to entertaining the possibility that William Senior had lived at Wherwell
previous to 1637 or 1638, but to the degree of certainty expressed in the
absence of any corroboration whatsoever. Since Wherwell parish records don't
begin until 1634, the best that can be done on that score is a record search
of surrounding parishes. Of course, if it were to be confirmed that William
Senior was born in Hampshire, it would virtually eliminate Robert of Marden
from consideration as his possible father.
<< Dummer was certainly not born in "New England", but the important point his
new home was there and he had not just stopped there. Likewise "Bishopstoke"
was likely his English home. That Dummer's home was Bishopstoke is suggested
in vol. 3 of A History of Hampshire, p. 310. Richard and family had various
land based charities for the poor in Bishopstoke. >>
I have no problem with Wherwell's being the "new home" of the Carpenters.
Robert Charles Anderson, whose knowledge of early New England immigrants has
no equal, fails to mention Bishopstoke in his eight-page account of Richard
Dummer, his family, connections, etc. (THE GREAT MIGRATION BEGINS: IMMIGRANTS
TO NEW ENGLAND 1620-1633, 3 vols. [Boston, 1995], 1:588-95). On 24 April 1638
Richard Dummer's father, John Dummer, was living at "Swathling," and his
brothers Thomas and Stephen at "Chickenwell" and "Townehill," respectively
(ibid., 1:592). Richard's first wife, Jane Mason, was the daughter of Rev.
Thomas Mason of "Oldiham," Hampshire (ibid., 1:590). Richard appears to have
been connected with the Pyldren alias Dummer family of South and North
Stoneham, Hampshire (ibid., 1:591-92).
Gene Z.
--WebTV-Mail-22079-1070
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From: carp33(a)webtv.net (harry carpenter)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:35:01 -0400 (EDT)
To: Lakgrand71(a)cs.com
Cc: RDGCMOM(a)aol.com
Subject: Carpenter Station Cem. in Lincoln Co.Ky.
Message-ID: <8552-3B2644B5-4962(a)storefull-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
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This is the Old Carpenter Fort Cemetery located about 2 miles west of
Hustonville in Lincoln Co. Ky. on Hwy 78. There is a plaque in the
cemetery with 20 names on it. I can identify most of these people. I
hope it will help someone.
(1) Aletha wife of J.T. Russell, b. 3-4-1812, d. 11-25-1881. Aletha was
the daughter of Henry and Catherine ( Sellers) Carpenter. Henry was the
youngest son of George #1 (Zimmerman)
Carpenter,the emigrant.
(2) William T.,son of F.and Aletha Russell,b.10-31-1848, d. 9-28-1851
(3) Leland, son of W. and Mary Carpenter,b. 9-21-1850, d. 8-8-1851.
Leland was the son of George Washington and Mary Ann ( Bottom)
Carpenter. George W. was the son of Henry and Catherine ( Sellers)
Carpenter.Mary Ann Bottom was the daughter of Capt. William and Mary
(Polly) ( Sanders)
Bottom.
(4) Amanda, daughter of C. and R.A. Carpenter, b. 6-2-1858, d.11-15-1861
(5) Infant of J.E. Bailey, 5-8-1872
(6) Lindsey, son of Conrad and Priscilla Carpenter, b.12-21-1850, d.
8-3-1851.
This Conrad was the son of Henry and Catherine ( Sellers) Carpenter.
Henry was the youngest son of George#1 ( Zimmerman ) Carpenter,the
emigrant. Priscilla was the daughter of James Russell.
(7) Cath Carpenter b.1788,d.1861. This is Catherine Sellers wife of
Henry Carpenter,
the youngest son of George#1 ( Zimmerman)
Carpenter, the emigrant. In 1954 I came here with my Dad and Oscar
Bradley, (who were double 1st. cousins.) they said that Henry's
grave was right beside Catherine.The slab is now covered with sod..They
were my G.G.
Grandparents. Henry was born 5-12-1778, d.
Sept.1847. Catherine was the daughter of Conrad Sellers of Rockingham
Co. Va. Both Henry and Catherine were born in Rockingham
Co. Va. and came to Lincoln Co. KY. about 1810.
(8) William Morrison b.8-24-1792,d.2-23-1839.
After John Carpenter's death in 1784, John's
wife Elizabeth ( Spears ) Carpenter 2nd married Ezra Morrison in 1791.
This is their son.
(9) James Morrison, b.12-11-1790, d.10-28-1809.
(10) Elizabeth Morrison, b.12-5-1755,d.10-26-1832,This is John
Carpenter's wife who after John's death married
2nd to Ezra Morrison. Eliabeth was the sister to Catherine ( Kate)
(Spears-Frye) Carpenter who was married to Adam Carpenter, brother to
John and Conrad who established Carpenter's Station. Henry Carpenter who
came about 1810 was also a brother.
(11) Sarah Mason, wife of P.B.Mason, b.1-4-1811, d. 3-27-1848
(12) Elizabeth Mason wife of P.B. Mason,
b.1-15-1812, d. 9-22-1852.
Sarah and Elizabeth were the daughters of George ( Station ) and Jane (
Logan ) Carpenter.Dr. Peter Mason was 1st. married
to Sarah, after her death Peter married Elizabeth.
(13) Stone Broken Carpenter
b. 2-7-1785, d. 2-29-1857
(14) George Carpenter, b. 6-8-1784, d. 1-13-1870. This is ( Station )
George son of John and Elizabeth ( Spears ) Carpenter, and grandson of
George#1 ( Zimmerman ) Carpenter,the emigrant.
(15) Jane, wife of G. Carpenter,b.2-7-1785,d.
1-29-1857. This is Jennie Logan, wife of (Station) George Carpenter and
was the daughter of Gen. Hugh and Sarah ( Woods ) Logan.
(16) Hugh L. Carpenter, b. 8-28-1816,d.
8-17-1879. He was the son of George (Station ) and Jennie ( Logan)
Carpenter, grandson of John and Elizabeth ( Spears ) Carpenter and great
grandson of George #1 ( Zimmerman)
Carpenter, the emigrant. Hugh Logan Carpenter was married to Elizabeth
Bright daughter of John and Elizabeth ( Morrison)
Bright.
(17) James G., son of Hugh L. and Elizabeth Carpenter, b. 1-21-1850, d.
7-21-1851
(18) Conrad Carpenter, b.8-21-1759,d.9-6-1829
Rev. War Soilder and pioneer. He was the first of the Carpenter brothers
to go to Ky. He and
his 2 brothers John and Adam established Carpenter Station Fort in 1780
in Lincoln Co. Ky. He was the son of George #1
(Zimmerman) Carpenter, the emigrant. It is not known if he was ever
married.
(19) John Carpenter b. 1725, d.1785. He was a Rev. War Siolder pioneer,
half brother to Conrad Adam and Henry. John was married to Elizabeth
Spears, sister to Catherine ( Spears) Carpenter,wife of Adam.He as the
son of George #1 (Zimmerman) Carpenter, the emigrant.
(20) Ezra Morrison b. 1756,d. 11-1-1844
He was 2nd husband of Elizabeth (Spears)
Carpenter, who was 1st married to John
Carpenter, the pioneer.
I have another cemetery and a little story that I will add later as time
permits.
--WebTV-Mail-22079-1070--
Bruce,
<< One matter that I could never accept was the listing of Wherwell as a
temporary
residence for the Carpenters. When people ask me where I am from I never
give them one of my MANY temporary addresses. I tell them where I was born. >>
If you had been asked, as the passengers of the BEVIS obviously were, to
provide your most recent place of residence, you would have done as they did
and indicated where you had last resided, whether it was your birthplace or
not. All BEVIS passengers for whom a residence is given are listed as "of" a
certain place. Richard Dummer, for example, who had already established
himself in Massachusetts and was returning there with his family, is listed
as "of New England." This, of course, was not his birthplace.
While the Carpenters are listed as "of Horwell [SIC, Wherwell]," William2 of
Rehoboth had been at Shalbourne (straddling the Wiltshire-Berkshire line,
about 15 air miles NNW of Wherwell) from at least 28 April 1625, when he
married Abigail Briant there, until at least 20 April 1637, when son Samuel
(the first of two of that name) was buried there--and probably until at least
25 January 1637[/8], when an unidentified Alice Carpenter was buried there.
Of the six Shalbourne records that name William2, only that of the
aforementioned Samuel's baptism, on 1 March 1636[/7], refers to him as
"Junior." This suggests that his father, William1 (of whom there is no
record after his 2 May 1638 listing as a BEVIS passenger), may have lived
elsewhere until sometime between 6 April 1634 (when William2's son Joseph was
baptized at Shalbourne) and Samuel's 1 March 1636[/7] baptismal date. (For
the primary sources of the data in this and the previous paragraph, see TAG
70[1995]:193-204, at 193-94.) But as to either William's specific residence
prior to Shalbourne, nothing is known. A record search of the parishes
surrounding Shalbourne might turn up something.
In light of the above, and in the absence of any evidence that these
Carpenters had lived at Wherwell previous to 1637 or 1638, let alone been
born there, it is pure speculation to think so.
Gene Z.
I am looking for any information on my Great-grandmother I can find. So far
she has been a road block. Below is her information. Of course any and all
help is appreciated.
Jeanine Carpenter Wichman
jwichman(a)mcsomaha.com
Descendants of Dora Belle Matchett
1 Dora Belle Matchett b: January 11, 1868 in Peoria, Peoria Co., Illinois
d: March 1952 in Milford, Dickinson Co., Iowa Burial: 1952 Milford Cemetery,
Dickinson Co., Iowa
. +Robert Talley Carpenter b: August 7, 1864 in Blue Point, Washington
Township, Poweshiek Co., Iowa m: April 8, 1884 in Montezuma, Poweshiek Co.,
Iowa d: October 22, 1959 in Milford, Dickinson Co., Iowa Burial: 1959
Milford Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
..... 2 Adda Belle Carpenter b: August 16, 1884 in Audubon County, Iowa d:
July 14, 1966 in Gray, Sack, Canada Burial: Gray, Sack, Canada
.........+Tipton LaFoy b: Abt. 1884 m: 1911 d: August 2, 1980 in Gray, Sack,
Canada
..... 2 Oliver Burris Carpenter aka: O.B. Carpenter b: September 9, 1886 in
Audubon, Audubon Co., Iowa d: December 5, 1959 in Died at home in Ruthven,
Palo Alto Co,, Iowa surrounded by his family. Burial: December 8, 1959 Crown
Hill Cemetery, Ruthven, Palo Alto Co., Iowa
.........+Opal Elnora Prather b: August 17, 1890 in Coon Rapids, or Viola
Center, Audubon Co., Iowa m: February 23, 1908 in Viola Center, Audubon Co.,
Iowa d: December 9, 1979 in St. Lukes Nursing Home, Spencer Iowa Burial:
December 11, 1979 Crown Hill Cemetery, Ruthven, Palo Alto Co., Iowa
..... 2 [1] Bert Cleveland Carpenter b: February 12, 1889 in Audubon
County, Iowa d: August 7, 1964 in Spirit Lake Hospital, Dickinson Co. Iowa
Burial: 1964 Milford Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Nellie Fay Tuel b: 1890 d: 1960 Burial: 1960 Milford Cemetery,
Dickinson Co., Iowa
..... *2nd Wife of [1] Bert Cleveland Carpenter:
.........+Mabel Lambert b: Abt. 1889
..... 2 loyd Albert Carpenter b: February 19, 1891 in Audubon County, Iowa
d: March 19, 1901 in Audubon County, Iowa Burial: Viola Center Township
Cemetery, Audubon Co., Iowa. "Son of Robert & Dora."
..... 2 Harry Robert Carpenter aka: Bob Carpenter b: August 12, 1894 in
Nance County, Nebraska d: February 7, 1996 in St. Luke Lutheran Home,
Spencer, Clay Co., Iowa Burial: February 10, 1996 Milford Cemetery, Milford,
Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Celia May Bovee b: April 28, 1899 in Coon Rapids, Iowa m: March 3,
1920 in Home of Celia's parents, Milford, Dickinson Co., Iowa d: January 30,
1985 in Milford, Dickinson Co., Iowa Burial: 1985 Milford Cemetery,
Dickinson Co., Iowa
..... 2 [2] Clyde Jewel Carpenter b: March 15, 1897 in Audubon County, Iowa
d: August 29, 1966 in Spirit Lake, Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Pama Waterman b: Abt. 1897 m: Abt. 1920
..... *2nd Wife of [2] Clyde Jewel Carpenter:
.........+Ethel Lamm b: Abt. 1897 m: Aft. 1921
..... 2 Lewis Wallace Carpenter aka: Bill Carpenter b: May 18, 1900 in
Audubon County, Iowa d: August 8, 1981 in Iowa City Hospital, Iowa Burial:
1981 Milford Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Venu Tuel-Conner b: February 15, 1897 d: January 1975 Burial:
January 24, 1975 Milford Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
..... 2 [3] Laura Eldora Carpenter b: December 28, 1902 in Newton Township,
Carroll County, Iowa d: November 5, 1986 in Lake Park, Dickinson Co., Iowa
Burial: November 7, 1986 Spirit Lake Memorial Gardens, Spirit Lake,
Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Othello W. Webber aka: Buzz b: Abt. 1902 m: July 14, 1921
..... *2nd Husband of [3] Laura Eldora Carpenter:
.........+Lee Echart b: October 2, 1902 m: Aft. 1922 d: July 1969 Burial:
Spirit Lake Memorial Gardens, Dickinson Co., Iowa
..... 2 Norene Sarah Carpenter aka: Brownie Carpenter b: September 30, 1906
in Audubon County, Iowa d: June 8, 1965 in Spirit Lake, Iowa Burial: Milford
Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
.........+Lewis L. Gilmore aka: Buster b: Abt. 1906 m: November 12, 1925
Burial: Milford Cemetery, Dickinson Co., Iowa
Militia Officers in New York, 1700
List of ye present officers of ye Militia in his Matys Province of New York
in America commissionated by his Excel. Richd Earle of Bellomont, Capt
Generall & Govr in Chief in & over his Matys said Province &c.
Company of Foot, town of Jamaica
Capt. Hope Carpenter
Lieut. Benjn. Thurston
Ensigne Richd. Oldfield
another Company of Foot, town of Jamaica
Capt. Sam. Carpenter
Lieut. Joseph Smith
Ensigne Dan. Smith
Dear Bruce E.,
You wrote:
"After I saw the Hampshire Carpenter I took out the Victoria History
volumes for Hampshire and discovered yet another rich yoman Thomas
Carpenter for the years of Henry VIII in north Hampshire. Thomas was
described as a 'miller', but don't assume this only meant 'corn miller'.
Might also be 'fulling miller'.
This Thomas was also mayor of the town."
Which town? Was it near or at Wevillrodde, Bentworth, Hampshire,
England?
May I ask which Victoria History volume, page and full cite?
Also, as a minor point, there is no Bristol Bay in the south west of
England. The "River Severn" opens into the "Mouth of the Severn" then
becomes the "Bristol Channel" before opening full into the Atlantic
Ocean.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Bruce E. Carpenter wrote:
Subject:
[CARPENTER] Who was this 2
Date:
Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:05:05 -0400
From:
"carpenter" <carp(a)tezukayama-u.ac.jp>
To:
CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
After I saw the Hampshire Carpenter I took out
the Victoria History volumes for Hampshire and discovered
yet another rich yoman Thomas Carpenter for the years of
Henry VIII in north Hampshire. Thomas was described as a 'miller', but
don't
assume this only meant 'corn miller'. Might also be 'fulling miller'.
This Thomas was also mayor of the town.
If you take all the 'yoman' Carpenters from the period and place them on
the
map
you will see they all lived in the historical circle 0f Reading,
Newbury,
Northern Wilts and Hampshire. In this circle are Werewell (sp?) and
related
places.
Only later can they really be found south into Wilts. These yoman
Carpenters
were ignored previously, perhaps because they were not 'gentlman'
Carpenters.
This was how the period history developed. From London/Surrey to
Reading/Newbury
and finally into Wilts, late 1400s to late 1500s. Wool and cloth
production.
Another point is all the places there were no Carpenters. I haven't made
a
study of
Wilts parish registers, but the few that I have seen show Carpenters in
only
certain places.
This makes some people unhappy who insist there were Carpenters
in every village and William Carpenter could have been a descendant of
any one of them. True, but the literature points to something else.
Of couse the theory the Homme Carpenters flew in from
Bristol Bay is an impossibility.
BC
Dear Richard,
Using the CE CD 2001 can be very helpful or frustrating depending on
your level of expertise with computers and or genealogy programs.
Most people first explore the HTML book first with "Start" then read and
look at the tidbits given. The book also tries to give hints of how to
get to the rest of the materials on the two CD set.
It helps to think of the CE CD 2001 as an extra hard drive containing
Carpenter related material. You can find articles, pictures, books, et
cetera there.
To me the most important part of the CE CD 2001 is the GEDCOM and the
PAF4 data file. WHY? These two allow you to search the 88,000 names in
the data base from a genealogy program.
Most genealogy programs allow import and exporting data via GEnealogical
Data COMmunications standards. GEDCOM comes in two basic types.
Version 4.0 and version 5.5. The CE CD uses version 5.5.
Version 4.0 is for the older programs like PAF (Personal Ancestral File)
version 2.31 or earlier. Generally this version had a maximum record
limit about 60,000 names.
Version 5.5 allows for almost unlimited names and allows for pictures
and more flexibility in the records. The CE CD GEDCOM is version 5.5.
I have tried to keep the possible conflicts or bugs to a minimum
allowing maximum compatibility.
PAF version 4.0 and 5.0, along with FTW (Family Tree Maker for Windows)
version 5.0 to 7.x AND newer programs use GEDCOM 5.5.
PAF versions 4.0 and 5.0 can be downloaded for free on line. Go to:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/default.asp
and follow the links to "Order/Download Products" to the free PAF
genealogy programs. Personally I like version 4.0 better than version
5.0.
" ... my question is if i do buy the Carpenter CD, will i be able to
find my grandfather, greatgrandfather Carpenter on it without trouble
and if so should this allow me to do my Carpenter lineage without much
other research?"
The answer is "no". It will take "some" trouble to know how to use a
computer and a genealogy program. You will need to go through the basic
learning curve to be able to do an alphabetical search or other varied
searches to find names.
Even after you have checked the names, your Carpenters may not be
there. There are many many Carpenters who are not included. Some were
not of English descent. Many lines were never linked or have yet been
discovered.
The CE CD is a tool. It is a compilation of Carpenter data from over
792 people and many research materials. Depending on the tool and how
you use it will determine the result of your efforts.
When you and anyone else has the CE CD 2001, you will have about 98% of
the material I have on Carpenters.
Some of the lines have fantastic doumentation and others next to
nothing. It all depends on the person who submitted the line.
I really hope you find your ancestors on the CE CD. I also hope you
will share what you have with others. This way all may benefit from the
team work!
Sincerely,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
PRO11406(a)aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
> Pardon my ignorance but i am a "newbee" as they say, to this
> process...my question is if i do buy the Carpenter CD, will i be able
> to find
> my grandfather, greatgrandfather Carpenter on it without trouble and
> if so
> should this allow me to do my Carpenter lineage without much other
> research?
> thanks for your time in advance,
>
> Appreciatively yours.
> Richard Carpenter
<< While it is still true that the precise genealogy of William(s) is
"anybody's guess", the sociological and demographic evidence of an
interconnected and historical Carpenter family of Wilts/Berks is overwhelming.
BC >>
Bruce,
As the author of the 1995 TAG article on William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth and
his family, I thoroughly agree that the ancestry of his father (so-called
William of Wherwell) remains unknown. Perhaps I was too hasty in skimming
the material on your Website, but I'm unable to reconcile it with your
"anybody's guess" statement. Do you not at least imply there that John
Carpenter, Town Clerk of London, and his London-merchant-class Carpenter
forebears are all ancestors of both William of Rehoboth and William of
Providence/Pawtuxet?
That "the sociological and demographic evidence of an interconnected and
historical Carpenter family of Wilts/Berks is overwhelming" is beside the
point: Sociology and demography (particularly the latter) deal in aggregate
data, which do not identify specific individuals and families. And even if
it were otherwise, one hardly needs these social sciences to tell us there
were Carpenter sheepmen in Wilts/Berks, some of whose families were
inevitably interconnected. Neither their surname nor their occupation was
distinctive. On the other hand, the surname's occupational origin and
ubiquity make it virtually certain that many of these Carpenter families were
NOT interconnected. If you are suggesting that overwhelming evidence exists
as to the Rehoboth and Providence Carpenters' connection to a particular line
of Wilts/Berks Carpenters, I'd very much like to know what it is.
Cordially,
Gene Zubrinsky
Ojai, Calif.
Carpenter Cousins,
I just checked out "I, Roger Williams," by Mary Lee Settle, from the library
and sifted quickly through it, hoping to find extensive and laudable text
about our forebears. Can't find it on first glance. I'm reading it now
carefully and perhaps the point is to pick up appropriate historical
background. Other reactions?
Jenny
I am new to this list and hope someone can be of some help to me. I am
looking for information on a Bessie Carpenter who on Aug 1,1902 gave birth
to a son who she named Kenneth Carpenter. He was born in Ithaca, New York
and placed in a Orphanage in Randolph. On his paper work it states, Place
the child in good home as soon as possible. He was at the home until July
12,1907. He then went to the home of Robert and Mary J.Eddy. They were the
only parents he knew.
Bessie Carpenter was 16 at the time of birth. So she was born abt. 1886.
Any help would be appreciated, With just this little information it is
impossible to locate any information on her. Thanks to anyone who can help.
Charlyne
Hi Carol
You stilll have no been able to get in touch with John Carpenter, thelast
time someone had sent him an e-mail with a virus.
Try again with same e-mail.
Bob C
ps if you need then phone # let me know
Hello
I recently placed a query asking for help in identifying the Mary
Carpenter who married Daniel CHASE Jan. 22, 1722 in Newbury, Essex Co., MA.
I received an e-mail from walker(a)familynet.net with an attachment which I
could not open and I've written him/her asking them to re-send this. I also
have tried unsuccessfully to reach John Carpenter, one of the leading
CARPENTER family experts, for some insight or direction on this.
Until I receive a response with information, I have managed to find a
bit of additional information and hope there are some Carpenter historians
out there who can provide some information, given the additional information
I've found which may--or may not--tie this family to the Bristol County
Carpenters (or to any other Carpenter line)
:
I found in the Essex County, MA vital records:
Children of Edward Carpenter, baptized at Newbury:
Edward bp Dec. 1, 1723
John bp. Sept 26, 1719
Mary bp. Sept 26, 1719 (I'd already had these 3 entries)
Children of Ephraim and Martha Carpenter, baptized at Newburyport:
Edward bp Dec. 1, 1723
John bp. Sept. 26, 1719
Mary bp. Sept. 26, 1719
I cannot explain why we have identical children baptized to two different
fathers here.... clerical error? Can anyone explain this? Were there by
any chance brothers named Ephraim and Edward Carpenter who elected to have
their children baptized together, as unrealistic as it may seem?
I don't know if the above Ephraim and Martha are the same couple, but I know
that an Ephraim Carpenter married Martha (no surname given) March 24, 1719
in Rehoboth, Bristol County. Can anyone advise if this Rehoboth couple has
children matching the above list? If so, does anyone have this Martha's
surname?
I found a Mary Carpenter born in 1703 at Newbury (no month/day given)
to John Carpenter (no mother given). Could this Mary be the same who
married Danile CHASE in Newbury in 1722?
I found at Rowley, Essex County, MA (only about 6 miles from Newbury) an
Edward and Elizabeth Carpenter who had a son John bp. May 19, 1719.
(Rehoboth records list an Edward Carpenter marrying Elizabeth Frazer Oct 21,
1714, recorded both at Rehoboth as well as at Suffolk Co., in Boston. Is
this the same couple as the one having a child born at Rowley in 1719? )
There was a John Carpenter who lived at Ipswich, Essex Co., MA in
1678-- Ipswich being only about 3-4 miles from Rowley and only about 10
miles from Newbury. All of the above Essex County events are within 11
miles of each other (i.e. Ipswich, Rowley, Newbury and Newburyport). I
found absolutely no other Essex County, MA entries for Carpenter families at
this time. Given the proximity and time frame, it suggests that these lines
may well be closely related, with a possibly link to Rehoboth lines (IF the
Newburyport Ephraim and Martha are the same Ephraim and Martha who md in
1719 at Rehoboth).
I'd very much like to hear from anyone with information on these
individuals. I'd also like very much to hear from John Carpenter and
'Walker', two people who may very well know something about this issue of
who Mary Carpenter's parents were--and who some of the abov Carpenters are
in relation to the known Carpenter lines of Rehoboth and Providence and
elsewhere? I'd deeply appreciate any information. Thank you, Carol Ashby
----- Original Message -----
From: <CARPENTER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
To: <CARPENTER-D(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 4:00 PM
Subject: CARPENTER-D Digest V01 #103
At 01:21 PM 6/1/01 -0400, GLDOR(a)aol.com wrote:
>I am confused! Who was the father of William Carpenter of Wherwell (father
>of Captain William of Rehoboth)? Was it Robert Carpenter or John Carpenter?
>I need to get it straight. I think that I need to order the CDs so that I
>can get it all clear in my mind. Thanks!
>
>Lori Dorschel
>Nashville
Lori, it may come as a surprise to a lot of people, but according to my
understanding it has never been proven who his father was.
I am not an expert in the matter but as I understand it the line given
in Amos Bugbee Carpenter's book has never been confirmed, it is speculation.
So before William of Wherewell it's anybody's guess, and there are a lot of
guesses :)
Chuck
I am confused! Who was the father of William Carpenter of Wherwell (father
of Captain William of Rehoboth)? Was it Robert Carpenter or John Carpenter?
I need to get it straight. I think that I need to order the CDs so that I
can get it all clear in my mind. Thanks!
Lori Dorschel
Nashville
Dear Connie,
The more detail, the better I can do a search.
At the present I have no matches. I made some assumptions (CAPS) below.
GF - My Grandfather was John T. Carpenter born 1872 in Little Tew
England, died 1957, Canton Ct. USA - he had no brothers or sisters.
GGF - His father was John Gardiner Carpenter also of Little Tew
England BORN ??? ABT 1845 ???
GGGF - John Gardiner Carpenter's father was George Carpenter I think
also of little Tew or vicinity in OXON. He married Mary Gardner (born
1821 and daughter of Thomas Gardner born 1796) on 8/1/1844. ??? GEORGE
BORN ABT 1820???
Based on the above I found clues in the IGI ...
FamilySearch® International Genealogical Index v4.02
International Genealogical Index Selected Records
1.
George CARPENTER - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: M Christening: 4 Aug 1819 Charlbury, Oxford, England
THIS ONE IS THE MOST INTERESTING. CHARLBURY IS ABOUT 15 KLICKS SOUTH OF
LITTLE & GREAT TEW. I WOULD TRY TO FIND OUT WHO HIS PARENTS WERE!
2.
George CARPENTER - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: M Birth: Abt. 1820 Chadington, Oxford, England
NOTE: I found marriage info for this one ...
George CARPENTER (AFN: 21LQ-8ZD) Sex: M
Birth: Abt 1820 Chadington, Oxon, Eng
Parents:
Marriage(s):
Spouse: Frances Edith PALMES (AFN: 21LQ-8VR)
Marriage: Abt 1847 Chadington, Oxon, Eng
NO CHILDREN LISTED.
I hope this helps.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
************************************************
Connie Carpenter wrote:
>
> Hi John, my name is Connie Carpenter and I live in New York City. Recently,
> my elderly Aunt (Eleanor Carpenter Tallmadge) forwarded to me all of her
> research on our family History. I've had a lot of fun going through the
> information and I think I have caught the geneology bug. She did a lot of
> research on her maternal side (Lovell) but not very much on her paternal
> side (Carpenter.) I have picked up the quest to research our family back
> through the Carpenter tree.
>
> I came across your website and have had fun going through the different
> pieces of information that I have found there (and am nowhere near
> finished). I think I would like to order the CD but I am not sure if my
> relatives would be included.
>
> All of my Carpenter relatives are from England. My grandfather was born
> there and we know where he and his father and his father's father were from.
> I hope that I might tell you what I have found out so far and you can tell
> me if your CD would be a good resource for me.
>
> My Grandfather was John T. Carpenter born 1872 in Little Tew England, died
> 1957, Canton Ct. USA - he had no brothers or sisters.
> His father was John Gardiner Carpenter also of Little Tew England
> John Gardiner Carpenter's father was George Carpenter I think also of little
> Tew or vicinity in OXON. He married Mary Gardner (born 1821 and daught of
> Thomas Gardner born 1796) on 8/1/1844. George Carpenter Sr. also had
> another son George Thomas Carpenter (brother to John Gardnier Carpenter) who
> was born 1846 and was the Rector of Thwaite in Suffolk from 1890 to 1910.
>
> So I don't think I have any American relatives that are in my direct line of
> descent, but maybe someone else traces their ancestry back to the father of
> George Carpenter Sr. (for whom I don't have any birth information.)
>
> I am also posting this to the Carpenter list.
>
> I thank you in advance for helping me to get further into my geneology
> research.
>
> Connie Carpenter
>
> p.s. my father is Edgar Bernard Carpenter and I have a three brothers named
> John Thomas Carpenter, Daniel Edgar Carpenter and James Bernard Carpenter.
Information
This is the Carpenter Cousins Rootsweb. Since many Zimmermans became Carpenters, Both are discussed here along with related DNA information.