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Jeff,
I learned long ago not to jump to conclusions, but also not to ignore any
possible lead. So here's what I have, though I have no knowledge of any
part of my family settling in WV:
--John CARPENTER, b. 1797 in VT m. Mary O'CONNOR. John d. 1879 in Madison
Co., NY.
--John and Mary had children, including my GGgrandfather, James, and
including one Robert CARPENTER (no dates) and one Harmon CARPENTER, b.
about 1832. Harmon is buried in the Sheds Cemetery, Sheds (De Ruyter),
Madison Co., NY. This is everything that I know about Harmon. I know even
less about Robert. Let's say it's
John (1797) => Harmon (abt. 1832) => John (abt. 1848) => Harmon (abt.
1874/7).
The elder Harmon CARPENTER would have been 16 or so when he fathered the
younger John, but in those days (as in these!), that wasn't all that
uncommon. Another possibility might be that it goes
John => Robert => John => Harmon, with John naming Harmon after Uncle Harm.
This is all assuming that I correctly interpreted the data you sent. John
and Mary had the following children: Clarinda, Robert, Susannah, James
(the eldest, we think), Lucinda, Harmon, Giles, Samuel D. (b. abt. 1835),
Adelia A., and Elizabeth (b. abt. 1840) CARPENTER. You have John, Harmon,
Samuel, and Elizabeth. Are there other overlaps?
Thus, if I have it figured correctly, this may be who the grandfather and
great grandfather were. It would explain why we don't have much info on
Harmon or Robert, while we have a lot on most of the rest of the family.
If a youngster ran off on his own, you never know the family's attitude. I
found my Ggrandfather Franz/Frank Schaub, who immigrated here from Germany
in 1868, along with most of his family who came with him, listed in Baden
as having died in 1868. Buried alive (LOL) by the Fatherland and his
neighbors. Let's just say they didn't tell the Prussian government they
were taking a trip. Families can be even tougher, eh?
I hope there is a connection, which would be the good news. The bad news
is that our info ends with the data, "b. 1797 in VT."
George
---
George R. Carpenter
Pinckney, Michigan
carpgl(a)ismi.net
----------
> From: Jeff Thornton <jthorton(a)marshall.edu>
> To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CARPENTER] Central WV Carpenter
> Date: Sunday, September 24, 2000 9:24 AM
>
> I am hoping that someone can help me sort out some Clay County census
information on Harmon Carpenter. The information is as follows:
> 1880 Clay County Census : CARPENTER, John, 32/ Nancy J., 32/ Sam'l P.,
12/ Elizabeth, 9/ Harmon, 6/Margaret, 89 mother/
> 1860 Clay Co. WV Census : CARPENTER, Margaret- 60
>
> 1870 Clay County Census : CARPENTER; Marga 80(1790)/ John Duglas 55(1815)
>
> Clay County Marriages
> Harmon Carpenter 22 to Martha Nottingham 16, 4-6-96 by R.M.Rose
> John Carpenter 17 to Nancy J. Cutlip 18 ,3-14-67 by S.B. Grose
>
> 1900 Clay County Census
> Harm b May 1877 age 23
> Martha b Sept 1880 age 19
> Shelton b Dec 1896 age 3
> Tiny dau b Feb 1898 age 2
> Henry Marks nephew b May 1888 age 12
> Elizabeth Carpenter mother widow b April 1828 age 72
>
> Questions: 1.Who was Harmon's grandfather, etc..?
>
> 2. Was this Margaret listed above Jesse Carpenter's
wife Margaret Cottrill?
>
> 3. Is the Elizabeth in the 1900 census the same Nancy
J. Cutlip listed on the 1880 census? By age it should be his grandmother
>
> which would make Margaret not John's mother
but grandmother.
>
> Any answers on this mystery. I need help.
>
> Thanks Jeff Thornton, Milton,WV
>
>
>
>
>
>
John W.? Carpenter, born about 1885, wife Ida. Children, Pearl Marie
Carpenter born in 1903, in Kansas, died in Los Angeles Co., California. Vera
do not know where she was born, possibly in Kansas and also died in or about
Pasadena, California. Pearl Marie Carpenter Buchanan was my grandmother. I do
not have much information on her or her family. Any information would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Patty
I am hoping that someone can help me sort out some Clay County census information on Harmon Carpenter. The information is as follows:
1880 Clay County Census : CARPENTER, John, 32/ Nancy J., 32/ Sam'l P., 12/ Elizabeth, 9/ Harmon, 6/Margaret, 89 mother/
1860 Clay Co. WV Census : CARPENTER, Margaret- 60
1870 Clay County Census : CARPENTER; Marga 80(1790)/ John Duglas 55(1815)
Clay County Marriages
Harmon Carpenter 22 to Martha Nottingham 16, 4-6-96 by R.M.Rose
John Carpenter 17 to Nancy J. Cutlip 18 ,3-14-67 by S.B. Grose
1900 Clay County Census
Harm b May 1877 age 23
Martha b Sept 1880 age 19
Shelton b Dec 1896 age 3
Tiny dau b Feb 1898 age 2
Henry Marks nephew b May 1888 age 12
Elizabeth Carpenter mother widow b April 1828 age 72
Questions: 1.Who was Harmon's grandfather, etc..?
2. Was this Margaret listed above Jesse Carpenter's wife Margaret Cottrill?
3. Is the Elizabeth in the 1900 census the same Nancy J. Cutlip listed on the 1880 census? By age it should be his grandmother
which would make Margaret not John's mother but grandmother.
Any answers on this mystery. I need help.
Thanks Jeff Thornton, Milton,WV
Boys, boys, boys. Fight nice! Now let's shake hands and make up. I
learned a long time ago that it is all right for two people to agree to
disagree. I currently have this arrangement with the majority of the
American electorate, and we still get along all right. I'm just hoping
that the old hatchets don't start flying again. I enjoy hearing both (all)
sides of these issues, and just hope someone will find the definitive
answers to these questions from the Middle Ages. I even hope that someone
will know where John Carpenter, b. 1797 in VT, m. Mary O'Connor, d. 1879,
buried Sheds Cemetery, Madison Co., NY came from, genealogically speaking,
and I will be willing to believe any and all theories.
George
----------
> From: carpenter <carp(a)tezukayama-u.ac.jp>
> To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CARPENTER] fishing
> Date: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:51 AM
> "Mormon crap genealogy"
> like the William 'the Carpenter' DeMelun theory of
> Carpenter origins.
> Alas, all I reeled
> in was a Chandler. Pathetic outcome, but such are
> a fisherman's fortunes.
> BC
> It makes no sense to jump to conclusions (or even
> limp to conclusions) based on such meager clues.
>
> John Chandler
Hi All:
Since my initial contact with this group I have gained a lot of
information regarding the Carpenter lineage. Unfortunately, my progress
has been limited in trying to trace the ancestors of the elusive Benjamin
Carpenter, even with the help of John L, John R, and Charlie Carpenter.
I do know that he was born in Coventry and lived in South Kingstown,
Rhode Island until possibly his death Abt.. 1825 . This is the time that
his children moved to Clinton Twp, Wyoming County, Pennsylvania, and
because of this I decided to look around that state for possible links to
the Philadelphia Branch of the Carpenter family. This effort brought me
to a group of Carpenters in Lancaster County and a book in the Family
Tree Maker Genealogy Library called " Genealogy Notes of the Carpenter
Family" by Edward S. Walker, published in 1907 by the Illinois State
Journal Company. What I found interesting is that this branch of the
carpenters came to this country in the late 1600s but are not English or
descended from William of Homme.
The book is the autobiography and personal reminiscences of Dr. Seymour
D. Carpenter, who's paternal ancestor was one Dr. Heinrich Zimmerman, who
came to Germantown, from Switzerland in 1698. The book states the reason
for the difference in names being that " When the patents were issued
for the land selected by Heinrich Zimmerman, the clerk at Philadelphia,
evidently wishing to render his name conformable to the tongue of his
adopted government, Anglicized the name to "Carpenter," and thus it
happened that the Zimmermans, became the Carpenters". In another area of
the book It also states that Governor Penn made the interpertation with "
Heinrich" as Henry and "Zimmerman" as Carpenter. Thus Zimmermans are in
reality Carpenters.
My interest in this family line, again is the possible connection to
Benjamin, and the reason that his children went to Pennsylvania on the
death of their father. Could they be related to this branch of the
Carpenter family? While the book does provide a Genealogy Report as
such, it lacks sufficient detail to make this determination.
I would appreciate any feed back regarding the "Zimmerman/Carpenter"
linage and if available a Gedcom for this branch (It does save a lot of
typing). I also wonder how many other people are trying to find their
"English" ancestors that are actually of German roots.
Jack A. Schoedinger
________________________________________________________________
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Dear Debbie,
For the sake of continuity I will leave our communication on this, for sake
of rootsweb, I will cut it off and hope interested folks can back track to
the Carpenter/Wheeler, etc.
My records are mostly from the Wisners in America book, which is available on
microfilm, LDS and which is also available in the locked room of the Goshen
Library.
Capt. John Wisner, Sr. b 1718 or 1722 d 1778 Orange Co. son of Hendrick and
Mary (Shaw) Wisner married Anne or Anna (believe to by Jayne, dau of Wm. and
Elizabeth (Woodhull?) Jayne.
Ch:
Lt. Col Henry b. 1742 d. 1812 m Susannah Goldsmith , Emma W. Wisner (? who
is that), Caroline J. Barnes. (I have a listing of his ch. and marriages
which includes a son:
Jeffrey 1769-1855 m. (looks like SLY WHEELER and Elizabeth Armstrong)
(other of Henry's children marriage surenames included: Raynor, Bertholf,
Owens, Board and Houston)
Wm b 1745 (1741) d 1830 m Elizabeth ROE (3 ch listed, one, Anna Roe Wisner
m. Richard Burt Edsall - if I remember right one of the Goshen Carpenter's
married a Burt)
Capt. John Jr. (my line) by 1747 d 1811 m. Mary Thompson - 8 ch (none of
these listed in his will, as I understand it) m. Sarah Hall 6 children
Asa d. 1830 m. ELIZABETH VANDERHOOF on Dec. 24, 1774 (from Wisner book
chart) more could be written in the book, but I do not have any more
information in my notes)
Anne or Anna m. Richard Doudle
Charity (no further info)
Hannah m. John Benedict
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
OK, next generation:
John Wisner, Jr. (above) m. Mary Thompson dau of (we think) James Thompson
and Marah McDowell (old family records which I transcribed indicate this)
Ch:
Temperance m. 1. Cornelias VANDERHOOF, m. 2. Calvin Shepherd
Mary m 1. Jacob VANDERHOOF, m.2. JAMES VANDERHOOF
James m. 1. Elizabeth Runyon Carpenter (my line) m. 2 Hannah Moore (prob a
widow)
Col. Moses m. Dorthy Howell
Anna m . Gabriel Post, (maybe 2. Zared Mosher)
Hannah m James Van Houten
Eleanor m David Post
Sarah m. Peter Eastman
ch. of Sarah m. 1789
John M. m Marie M. Pitts
Wm Henry m. Emily Wood
Robert L. m Anna Carr, Mary Owens
Eliza m. Abraham Miller
Clarissa m. _____ Taylor
Asa m. Susan Kinner
-- I have a copy of an old letter dated 10/7/1936 sent to Mrs. hj. C. Voss,
Albany, Oregon which in part states that pension claim # R. 11744 re. John
Wisner (Jr.)..."john Wisner married, date not given, ___ Thompson, given name
not stated, who died in the uyear 1788. Reference was made to their ch. as
follows: Moses..Anna b nov. 1768, and in 1862 living in Wantage, Sessex
County, New Jersey when she signed Anna Post, and Hannah, in who in 1852 was
aged eighty-two years, resideing in Warwick, New York, and signed HANNAH
VANHOUTEN. The given name of the husbands of Anna and Hannah were not
stated. ..."
The lettter lists ch., the penison was denied becaue lack of proof of 6 mo.
service, but then does have some rather interesting further comments re. him
or his service -
"In 1853 one Jeffrey Wisner, aged eighty-two years, son of Colonel Henry
Wisner, was residing in Warwick, NY and testified that Capt. John Wisner came
to the home of Col. Henry Wisner during the war to relieve their fears about
an expected attack from the Tories, but he did not state his relationship to
him.
In 1853, on James Wood, aged seventy-four years and a resident of Warwick,
NY, stated that Capt. John Wisner's first wife was a half sister of his
(Wood's) father, whose given name he did not state.
In 1853, one William H. Clark, aged sixty years and a resident of said
Warwick, NY, stated that he was an "own cousin" of Sarah Wisner." (I would
guess this refers to Sarah nee Hall, his 2nd wife.
For what it is worth: I also have a copy of an EARLIER letter written Aug
13, 1913 to Mrs. Edith E. L. Lawrence, Washington, DC re. pension claims for
John Wisner which contains essentially the same information.
Sincerely, Phoebe
In a message dated 9/22/2000 9:47:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sfb(a)li.net
writes:
<< I have been following this conversation on the Carpenter-Wheeler
connection.
I am very intrigued. I have Wheeler roots. My great grandmother was Nettie
C. Wheeler. She is my dead end. I know very little about her, except that
she was born in NY or NJ in 1861. She married Peter Vanderhoff (from Orange
Co. NY) in 1877.
Phoebe, I believe that there is a Wisner-Vanderhoff connection in Orange Co.
although we have been unable to find a definite connection between your
Vanderhoff and mine.
Could these families all be interconnected??
Regards,
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
From: <MzCortez(a)aol.com>
To: <NYORANGE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 5:55 PM
Subject: [NYORANGE] Carpenter-Wheeler question that has been around the
block a bit!
> Dear Folks,
> I sent the Carpenter/Wheeler question to my Carpenter of the Carpenter
> rootsweb list and got the enclosed reply, but first:
>
> I have an interest in this because I am trying to prove/find the
identity
> of the parents of my elusive Moses Carpenter, who was reported to have
been
> the son of John Carpenter and Ruth Coe, of Jamaica to Goshen, Orange Co.
NY.
> AB Carpenter book cites a 1735 marriage, but does not prove sources.
>
> OK, abstract of Orange Co. deed May 1, 1792 MOSES CARPENTER, yeoman and
wife
> HANNAH (nee Smith) of Warwick to JOEL and NATHANIEL WHEELER, yeomen of
> Warwick. Property located near Mt. Eve, late of JOHN WISNER, deceased,
par
> of estate of said JOHN WISNER, NE corner of JW, deceased, commonly called
> Lewises (?) farm.
>
> Witnesses:
> ABSOLON TOWNSEND and WILLIAM THOMPSON Recorded 4/19/1793 The mortgage
for
> this property was Orange Co. Mortgage Vol A pg 353,4and5. June 2, 1783
From
> MOSES CARPENTER of Goshen and HANNAH, his wife, to CHRISTIAN MORRIS, JACOB
> MORRIS, and SARAH MORRIS of Or. Co.
> (My research indicates that JANE EVERETT was their mother and she was had
> previously been married to JACOB MORRIS, (m 1759 Trinity Ch. NY,NY, IGI)
and
> .Chauncery Ct. NY, Guardianship, Sureties at that time: ABSALON TOWNSEND
and
> THOMAS MOORE). I believe that JANE was the sister of MICHAEL DEKAY.
>
> Could these be the same CARPENTER, WHEELER, AND TOWNSEND families? Anyone
> know the connections/differences?
>
> Phoebe >>
Since my two sons and three gsons are the last in the Carpenter line
that I am looking for, I would like to add what I know of family so as
to maybe find their ancestors. If anyone can help, we would greatly
appreciate it. Seems no one in family living, knows anything about the
family before Rufus.
Rufus Edward (R.E.) CARPENTER, b.1776 place unk. possibly TN.
Married: Luna WORLEY, b. 6/Sept/1880
m. at White Oak, Dunklin Co, MO 12/Jan/1900. Their children were born in
Holcomb and Frisbee, Dunklin Co, MO. from 1901-1920. Rufus and Luna had
3 sons and 2 daughters , but only one had sons who were CARPENTERS.
Son:
Edgar Paul CARPENTER 3July1918
Sons of Edgar Carpenter:
Edgar Paul CARPENTER, JR. 1963 Phillip William Youeal
CARPENTER 1965
These two men have one son each.
A daughter has a son she gave Carpenter name to.
I have only added the male members sons, as putting all of them in would
be really long. Proud of our girls also.
If anyone can take this family back futher, I would certainly appreciate
it.
thank you, hope I did this right.
ex-Carpenter
Bruce -
I also am anxiously awaiting a chance to read your paper in full. I think
many of us owe you much for the enlightment you have provided on this
family. Thanks again and well done!
Loretta Smith
_________________________________________________________________________
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg & Winn" <gnw(a)rose.net>
To: <JACKSON-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:12 AM
Subject: [JACKSON] Cemetery being moved in St. Louis, Missouri
> Forwarded for Your Information......Winnette
>
> Hello,
>
> I live in St. Louis, Missouri and saw on the local news tonight that there
> is a BRIDGETON MEMORIAL PARK - 1843 - 1963 ( North St. Louis) that is
looking for persons with family buried there. The airport is being expanded
and they are going to move the CEMETERY.
>
> Is there a way to get this message to as many listers as possible in a
> short amount of time?
>
> Can you help!
>
> Pat Jones Smith
> St. Louis, Missouri USA
> MSmith3030(a)aol.com
>
>
>
> ==== JACKSON Mailing List ====
>
> To contact listowner write to
> Mary Russell bird(a)scrtc.com
>
>
> ==============================
> RootsWeb's guide to tracing family trees:
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/
>
>
What Bruce keeps overlooking is that the IGI is 100% "Mormon genealogy".
It is an index of temple work actually performed, and there is thus no
mechanism for removing or correcting errors because the temple work has
already been done. "Fishing" on the basis of anything from the IGI
should start with locating the source of that stuff and, if it's from
from an individually submitted pedigree, determining whether that
pedigree was meaningfully researched or not. In other words, winnow
first, then fish. Anything else is bound to waste people's time.
John Chandler
Dear Bruce,
I also want to publically (are we public folks) for sharing your information
as you were developing your paper and now offering to share the paper. Is
this a thesis for a particular degree???
Cuzzin' Phoebe
Dear Terry Lee,
Thanks for the two records below. Unfortunately, I have no matches.
Maybe someone on the Forum can match them up? "Here's hoping."
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
diluvius(a)flash.net wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
> I picked up a couple of records about NY Carpenters living in VA before
> and during the Civil War, including a John R. Carpenter who originated
> in Columbia Co. NY and may be the link to the origin of the other two
> Carpenters in Fairfax Co. VA prior to the Civil War, Benjamin D.
> Carpenter and his father Benjamin F. Carpenter. Benj. F. likely appears
> in the NY census of 1850 prior to moving to VA between 1850 and 1860 to
> join his son. This information is outlined below, with the source
> reference, tagged EMS. If you want to share this information with other
> researchers of the northern lines, I hope it is of use to you all. If
> you can connect these families to the NY families, identify their wives
> maiden names, etc., I would appreciate a brief summary of the data so I
> can direct future researchers of these lines to you and the master work
> you are compiling. Thanks!
>
> Here is the data:
>
> Benjamin F. Carpenter, born c1796 in NY, resided in Fairfax Co. VA in
> 1860 [NAMP]. He was a staunch anti-secessionist during the American
> Civil War and served as a guide for Union forces during the conflict
> [EMS]. He married c1818 to Sarah _?_ (born c1795 in NY, possibly née
> Lawson, daughter of Eunice Lawson who resided with the family in 1860).
> Children [NAMP, EMS]:
> 1. Benjamin D. Carpenter, born c1819 in NY, resided in Fairfax Co. VA in
> 1850 and 1860. He was an engineer and surveyor, and worked for the Union
> Army headquarters in DC during the American Civil War, surveying the
> line of forts defending Washington south of the Potomac, making maps for
> the Army engineers, and serving as a local guide for the Union forces
> [EMS]. He married c1860 to Anna M., born c1822 in NY. Children:
> 1a. Ellen Virginia Carpenter, born c1845 in NY, married James H.
> Crocker.
> 1b. Sarah A. Carpenter, born c1848 in NY, married first by license
> dated 11 May 1864 to Peter A. Stryker, second _?_ Sipperly.
> 1d. Augusta M. Carpenter, born c1850 in NY, married _?_ Martin.
> 1e. Mary J. Carpenter, born c1852 in VA.
>
> John R. Carpenter, born c1829 in Columbia Co. NY, resided in Fairfax Co. (BORN MAYBE 1819?)
> VA in 1850, died before May 1866 in Fairfax Co. VA[EMS]. He was a
> millwright and farmer [EMS]. He married c1840 to Myriam H. _?_.
> Children [EMS]:
> 1. Samuel M. Carpenter, born c1841.
> 2. Louisa M. Carpenter, born c1842.
> 3. Jane E. Carpenter, born c1845.
> 4. Phoebe E. Carpenter, born c1847.
> 5. John E. Carpenter, born c1849.
> 6. Etta Carpenter, born 23 Oct 1853.
>
> Source: EMS: Edith Moore Sprouse: _Fairfax County in 1860: A
> Collective Biography_ (privately published, Fairfax, VA, 1996), pp.
> 267-269.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Terry
Dear Phoebe,
Hello to your NYQUEENS Forum from the CARPENTER Forum.
Below is what I have on the Wheelers marrying Carpenters in that local
and time. I have the ancestry and families on each Carpenter mentioned.
More than happy to share data. As you can see in notes, the discussion
has been brought up before.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
*************************************************
Descendants of WHEELER-22684
First Generation
1. WHEELER-22684 was born about 1725 in NY.
He had the following children:
+ 2 M i. Joshua WHEELER-22683 was born about 1749.
+ 3 M ii. Eliphalet WHEELER-22685 was born about 1752.
4 M iii. Solomon WHEELER-22686 was born about 1749/1753 in NY.
Probably belongs in this family.
Solomon married (1) Rachel TOWNSEND-26811, daughter of Jonadab
TOWNSEND-22473 and Martha CARLL-26809 about 1768/1770 in NY. Rachel was
born about 1749/1753 in Hempstead, Queens, LI, NY.
Second Generation
2. Joshua WHEELER-22683 was born about 1749 in NY.
Joshua married (1) Nancy CARPENTER-22680, daughter of Stephen
CARPENTER-5106 and Amy FIELD-5107 about 1770 in NY. Nancy was born about
1749 in Flushing, NY.
!Number 173 in the book "The Carpenter Family in America" by Daniel H.
Carpenter, 1901.
She married a Wheeler, probably Joshus or Joshua Wheeler, who married
Ann Carpenter, May 9, 1773, as per record of First Presbyterian Church,
New York. He was a cordwainer (shoemaker).
!E-MAIL: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 From: "Elizabeth V Brady" <BAYLADY(a)prodigy.net>
Searching for the ancestry of the NANCY CARPENTER, born before 1763, who
married JOSHUA WHEELER. They had a son ELEPHALET WHEELER who was born
in 1780.
I believe this CARPENTER family was from New York, possibly Westchester
County. Betty
REPLY:
"Jack A Schoedinger" <j.schoedinger(a)juno.com>
To: <BAYLADY(a)prodigy.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Nancy Carpenter
I do not have much on the Wheeler line. According to the information in
my file Joshus Wheeler b. Abt 1763 had two brothers named Eliphalet and
Solomon. Joshua Married Nancy Carpenter abt 1770, the daughter of
Stephen and Amy (Field) Carpenter, (Stephen is a direct descendant of
William Carpenter the founder of Providence, RI. as follows Stephen, of
Thomas, of Joseph, of Joseph,of William). I have no record of children
for them. However, approximately a year later Nancy's sister Mary
married Joushua's brother Eliphalet and they had Eliphalet, Andrew, and
three unnamed female children.
My files on this family are in need of work so did not send gedcom, but
I'm sure you will hear from others in the group.
!E-MAIL: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 From: "Elizabeth V Brady"
<BAYLADY(a)prodigy.net> ... Regarding your request for information on the
descendants of Nancy Carpenter, here's what I have prior to the
generation which takes us into living individuals, beyond which I've
been asked not to go. I'd be happy to send you any additional
documentation which you feel might be of help.
Betty
Descendants of Nancy Carpenter
1 Nancy CARPENTER b: Aft. 1738
. +Joshua WHEELER aka: Joseph WHEELER b: Bef. 1763
2 Eliphalet WHEELER b: 1780 d: 1866
.... +Mary Matilda VAN LIEUDAN aka: Mary Matilda VAN LEW b: 1784 d:
1836 .. 3 Mary Matilda WHEELER b: March 10, 1810 d: November 02,
1890 in 16 West 40th St., Manhattan, NYC, NY
...... +Charles GRIFFEN aka: Charles GRIFFIN b: May 20, 1800 in
Mamaroneck, Westchester Co., NY m: 1827 d: July 25, 1831 in Mamaroneck,
Westchester Co., NY
.... 4 Ophelia Louise GRIFFEN aka: Ophie Louise GRIFFIN b: July 02,
1830 in New York City, NY d: April 25, 1867 in 446 5th Avenue,
Manhatten, N.Y.C., NY
........ +George Henry BISSELL b: November 08, 1821 in Hanover, NH m:
October 13, 1855 in Calvary Church, New York City, NY d: November 19,
1884 in 16 W. 40th St., New York City, NY
....... 5 Florence Wemple BISSELL b: January 11, 1857 in New York d:
November 26, 1912 in of 26 West 84th St., Manhattan, N.Y.C., NY
........... +Charles Slason PLATT b: December 07, 1846 m: June 02,
1887 d: November 28, 1923 in New York City, NY
....... 5 Pelham St. George BISSELL, I, Rev., AM, AKC aka: GUBBY b:
December 05, 1858 in New York City, NY d: April 02, 1918 in 254
Montgomery St., Jersey City, NJ
........... +Helen Alsop FRENCH aka: GAR b: February 12, 1865 in
Stapleton, Staten Island, NY m: June 07, 1886 in Trinity Chapel, New
York City, NY d: June 25, 1930 in 101 South Long Beach Ave., Village of
Freeport, Long Island, NY
......... 6 Pelham St. George BISSELL, II, Justice aka: Hon. Pelham
St. George BISSELL, Jr. b: April 11, 1887 in New York City, NY d:
September 08, 1943 in of 270 Park Avenue, Manhatten, NYC, NY
............. +Mary Valentine Yale BISSELL aka: May BISSELL b: April
23, 1889 in 43 West 52 Street, New York City, NY m: November 10, 1910 in
Columbia, SC d: January 28, 1948 in 128 Willow St., Brooklyn Heights, NY
Joshua and Nancy had the following children:
5 M i. Elephalet WHEELER-63604 was born about 1780.
3. Eliphalet WHEELER-22685 was born about 1752 in NY.
Eliphalet married (1) Mary CARPENTER-22682, daughter of Stephen
CARPENTER-5106 and Amy FIELD-5107 about 1771 in NY. Mary was born about
1753 in Flushing, NY.
!Number 175 in the book "The Carpenter Family in America" by Daniel H.
Carpenter, 1901.
She married and had sons Adrew and Eliphalet Wheeler and daughters Mrs.
Wells, Mrs. Griffin and Mrs. Middleton, all of New York.
Eliphalet and Mary had the following children:
6 M i. Andrew WHEELER-22687 was born about 1773 in NY.
7 M ii. Eliphalet WHEELER-22688 was born about 1775 in NY.
8 F iii. WHEELER-22689 was born about 1777 in NY.
First name unknown, but she married a Wells.
WHEELER married (1) WELLS-22692 about 1790 in NY. WELLS was born about
1777 in NY.
9 F iv. WHEELER-22690 was born about 1779 in NY.
First name unknown, but she married a Griffin.
WHEELER married (1) GRIFFIN-22693 about 1791 in NY. GRIFFIN was born
about 1779 in NY.
10 F v. WHEELER-22691 was born about 1781 in NY.
First name unknown, but she married a Middleton.
WHEELER married (1) MIDDLETON-22694 about 1792 in NY. MIDDLETON was born
about 1781 in NY.
Index
Name ID Generation
CARPENTER, Mary 3S 2
CARPENTER, Nancy 2S 2
GRIFFIN, 9S 3
MIDDLETON, 10S 3
TOWNSEND, Rachel 4S 2
WELLS, 8S 3
WHEELER, 1 1
WHEELER, 8 3
WHEELER, 9 3
WHEELER, 10 3
WHEELER, Andrew 6 3
WHEELER, Elephalet 5 3
WHEELER, Eliphalet 3 2
WHEELER, Eliphalet 7 3
WHEELER, Joshua 2 2
WHEELER, Solomon 4 2
****************************************************
MzCortez(a)aol.com wrote:
>
> Return-Path: <NYQUEENS-L-request(a)rootsweb.com>
> Reply-To: "Elizabeth V Brady" <BAYLADY(a)prodigy.net>
> From: "Elizabeth V Brady" <BAYLADY(a)prodigy.net>
> Old-To: <Jim(a)NYCgen.com>
> Resent-Sender: NYQUEENS-L-request(a)rootsweb.com
>
> Yesterday the surname CARPENTER came up for discussion. I wonder if anyone
> has a record of a NANCY CARPENTER who married JOSHUA WHEELER. They had a
> son ELEPHALET WHEELER who was born in 1780.
>
> Betty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Garrity" <jgarr1-2(a)idt.net>
> To: <NYQUEENS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [QUEENS] Jamaica, early, early
>
> > > Is anyone doing research on early, early families of Jamaica. I am
> > > interested in getting information on the Carpenters, Rhodes, and Coes.
> > > Particulary a reference in the A.B. Carpenter book that John Carpenter
> > > married Ruth Coe in 1735. Where might this marriage be recorded. The
> > > Carpenters were Pres.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions for early records? I did check out and review the LDS
> early
> > > land records. Anything else available any place.
> > >
> > Hello!
> >
> > Over the years, the New York Genealogical & Biographical Society's
> > Society's Journal, *The Record* has published numerous items regarding
> > the Old Families of New York, including Church records of Queens, and
> > many other notations which might be of interest to you.......
> >
> > Check out:
> >
> > http://www.nygbs.org
> >
> > For more information----They have a reasonably-priced Research Service
> > which can probably assist you with finding copies of the articles which
> > would be of interest to you.......
> >
> > I'm a member of the Society, but I don't get "a commission" on
> > anything! :-)
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Jim Garrity
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Garrity--Rootsweb Sponsor
> > NYC Genealogy Research Service
> > NYC Cemetery Research & Photography
> > http://www.NYCgen.com/ My eFax number: (630)566-7528
> > http://idt.net/~jgarr1 E-Mail: Jim(a)NYCgen.com
> > MAILING ADDRESS: P.O. Box 780063, Maspeth, NY 11378
> > AOL, MSN, & Yahoo Instant Messenger ID: Nycgen1
> > Pay Securely Online--For FREE!
> > https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=jim@nycgen.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more:
> > Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at
> > http://resources.rootsweb.com/
> >
>
> ==============================
> Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more:
> Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at
> http://resources.rootsweb.com/
>
> --part1_5d.e6fa21.26faef05_boundary--
Dear Bruce,
I responded also to your request. I provided data from the medieval
research area of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Family
History Medieval Section. See 18 Sept. 2000 message which provides
additional names and a pedigree for Walter de Gouy.
John Chandler is correct that the IGI is not data per se, but provides
clues. ALWAYS check where the data comes from. Some is junk and some
are "directly extracted records." The International Genealogical Index
or IGI does not provide lineages.
The Ancestral File is a collection of pedigrees and four generation
charts submitted to create a data base for research. This database
provides lineages and family groups. As you and many others know
garbage in equals garbage out.
The Pedigree Resource File is another version of the Ancestral File but
providing better researcher data, notes and such. It is also not
limited in identification numbers. Again the data is only as good as
what is submitted. Researchers are encouraged to submit where the data
came from.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has been the leader in
genealogical research efforts for over a century. They provided the
first genealogy program at a reasonable cost and have opened its
archives to members AND NON-MEMBERS alike.
The Mormon Church has a religious overtone to genealogy, part of
their religion allows baptism for their dead direct ancestors who might
have never heard the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
SEE: Corinthians in the New Testament.
1 Cor 15:29 and 2 Cor 2:15-16.
You can use their services and not be preached at. I have worked at the
Family History Center here in San Diego and the majority of the patrons
are not members. About a third of my volunteer co-workers are not
members.
Be thankful that that this Church believes in service. Do you remember
the days when you had to buy data sight unseen for genealogy? I do. Do
you remember being frustrated at just trying to find out where to go to
get information? I do.
Genealogy was once very expensive and you almost needed a degree to do
any research. It was mainly for the well to do and famous. Now it is
for everyone. You can thank the Mormon Church for encouraging that.
Theories or speculations should be clearly noted in any data files. Why?
Because it is almost impossible to establish the minimum three proofs of
verification on anything past say about 1500 or earlier. The records
simply do not exist documenting birth, marriage and death. Yes, there
are exceptions to royalty or the well to do or to some notable
individual in history.
William "the carpenter" De Melun is a historic figure documented for his
works (good or evil) for history. Some of his ancestry is documented as
well as some of his descendancy.
Has it been proved that William "the carpenter" De Melun is the direct
ancestor of the Carpenters in and near London in the 14th century? The
answer is NO. The answer has been NO since the beginning. It has been
labeled as speculation or a theory. For those who fail to read the
notes, fail to understand this.
The purpose of the Carpenter CD and my compilation of data was to
provide data for future researchers and correct errors where found.
I have taken earlier Carpenter research and their speculations then
combined with my own limited research to provide A POSSIBLE LINKAGE
(speculation or theory) from point A to point B to point C on the
earliest history of the Carpenters. Is it perfect? NO. I expect it to
change. I hope it changes ...
I have asked and sometimes begged others to look for data on the earlier
Carpenters. I have encouraged open discussion - SHOW ME SOMETHING
DIFFERENT - SHOW ME ANOTHER POSSIBLE LINEAGE. Only a handful have taken
the challenge even for a small effort. Small pieces of the puzzle come
in and it changes the picture or how we think we view it.
How we think we view it ... this based on our own preconceptions, biases
and desires. This is human nature but needs to be guarded against.
When we allow our negative side to put down or insult others it does NO
ONE any good.
Bruce, I know you do not want to have a "Jew Killer" in your ancestry.
You have stated this very clearly many times. Resorting to slander or
insulting is not right.
I have helped here and there and shown possible contradictions in the
data you have presented. Just like the many good people on this
Carpenter Forum have done for me.
I have told you that your research paper will be placed on the Carpenter
CD to provide a balance. Your investigations should be provided to
future researchers. You have made fantastic efforts in gathering up
early Carpenter data. I applaud you for this!
Please Remember ... EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM HAS A RIGHT TO PRESENT DATA,
ASK QUESTIONS AND MAKE CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS. NO ONE SHOULD TRY TO
INSULT OR PUT DOWN ANOTHER.
We may disagree, caution and encourage. This is an open forum. There
are hundreds of people watching with only a small part being active.
When some one is ready to ask a question or ask for help THEY SHOULD BE
HELPED, NOT HINDERED.
One last thought. All messages to this Carpenter Forum are stored and
are searchable for future researchers. How do we want to be viewed by
future researchers who might be our grandchildren?
Sincerely,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
Compiler of the Carpenter CD Project.
carpenter wrote:
>
> There is plenty of good "medieval stuff" in the IGI,
> faithfully copied from good sources. Unfortunately there
> is what Jason Carpenter called "Mormon crap genealogy"
> like the William 'the Carpenter' DeMelun theory of
> Carpenter origins. If the two Walters really had the title 'de Gouy'
> they would indeed be candidates as ancestors of
> the Herefordshire Carpenters. I had hoped someone would
> take the bait and research this. Alas, all I reeled
> in was a Chandler. Pathetic outcome, but such are
> a fisherman's fortunes.
> BC
>
> Bruce wrote:
> > Noticed in the IGI data that Raoul de Gouy
> > had a son Walter and he turn a Walter that d.
> > in 1020. This ends where the Jean le Carpentier data
> > begins in the 1030s.
> > Te IGI also says that the two Walters
> > were titled 'de Gouy'. This I cannot confirm. But if true the above Gouy
> > line maintained rights to the castle and property until 1020
> > from father to son. This suggests the Herefordshire Carpenters
> > were descendants of Hucbald.
>
> Sorry, Bruce, but the stuff in the IGI should not be called "data".
> At best, it provides clues as to what data might exist (except in the
> case of the directly extracted vital records, but that obviously
> doesn't apply to medieval stuff). Even if the stuff turns out to be
> true in general, you have to expect that the IGI will faithfully
> copy the surname from father to son, regardless of rights to castles
> or other property. It makes no sense to jump to conclusions (or even
> limp to conclusions) based on such meager clues.
>
> John Chandler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Everyone for contributing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
02:56 AM ET 09/20/00
Census Response Rate Tops 1990
By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID=
Associated Press Writer=
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Americans have reversed the declining
participation that marred the last two censuses, with two-thirds of
households returning their forms this year.
``The American people stepped forward and sent in their forms,''
Census Director Kenneth Prewitt said Tuesday, reporting a 67
percent response rate via mail and Internet.
``That result halts a (long) slide and actually begins to
reverse it,'' said Commerce Secretary Norman Mineta.
The wider participation also saves money, Prewitt said, because
every percentage point of mailed response represents 1.2 million
households that don't have to be visited by Census workers.
Thanks to that improvement in response, the $6.5 billion effort
``will be in the black,'' he said.
The Census Bureau budgeted for a 61 percent response rate,
following declines from 78 percent in 1970 to 75 percent in 1980
and 65 percent in 1990.
Census field workers are completing follow-up visits to homes
that failed to answer their forms, said Prewitt.
The 1990 rate was topped despite controversy about questions on
the long form that some people felt were intrusive. Prewitt said
the return rate for the short form was about 11 percent better than
for the long form, but the difference was made up during follow-up
visits to people's homes.
An actual tabulation of the nation's population must be
delivered to President Clinton by Dec. 31. The Supreme Court last
year ruled those figures must be used to reapportion the 435 seats
in the House.
Population figures, adjusted by using a statistical method known
as ``sampling,'' are scheduled for release by April 1.
Those numbers will be based on adjustments to the head count
after a survey of 314,000 households. Sampling has provoked
controversy and continues to face scrutiny in Congress.
Supporters of sampling say it helps account for people missed in
prior counts, especially the poor, minorities and inner-city
residents _ segments of the population that tend to vote
Democratic. Opponents including Republican leaders in Congress
contend that only an actual head count can be accurate.
The state and local numbers are used in drawing legislative
district lines and allocating billions of dollars in federal and
other aid.
The top response rate, 76 percent, was scored by Iowa, and 14
states topped 70 percent, the agency said. Puerto Rico had the
lowest rate at 53 percent.
___=
On the net: http://www.census.gov
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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References: <86.5dab35.26e90aba(a)aol.com> <39B7B2FF.DB295BE4(a)idt.net>
Subject: Re: [QUEENS] Jamaica, early, early
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:16:40 -0700
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Yesterday the surname CARPENTER came up for discussion. I wonder if anyone
has a record of a NANCY CARPENTER who married JOSHUA WHEELER. They had a
son ELEPHALET WHEELER who was born in 1780.
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Garrity" <jgarr1-2(a)idt.net>
To: <NYQUEENS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [QUEENS] Jamaica, early, early
> > Is anyone doing research on early, early families of Jamaica. I am
> > interested in getting information on the Carpenters, Rhodes, and Coes.
> > Particulary a reference in the A.B. Carpenter book that John Carpenter
> > married Ruth Coe in 1735. Where might this marriage be recorded. The
> > Carpenters were Pres.
> >
> > Any suggestions for early records? I did check out and review the LDS
early
> > land records. Anything else available any place.
> >
> Hello!
>
> Over the years, the New York Genealogical & Biographical Society's
> Society's Journal, *The Record* has published numerous items regarding
> the Old Families of New York, including Church records of Queens, and
> many other notations which might be of interest to you.......
>
> Check out:
>
> http://www.nygbs.org
>
> For more information----They have a reasonably-priced Research Service
> which can probably assist you with finding copies of the articles which
> would be of interest to you.......
>
> I'm a member of the Society, but I don't get "a commission" on
> anything! :-)
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Jim Garrity
>
>
> --
> Jim Garrity--Rootsweb Sponsor
> NYC Genealogy Research Service
> NYC Cemetery Research & Photography
> http://www.NYCgen.com/ My eFax number: (630)566-7528
> http://idt.net/~jgarr1 E-Mail: Jim(a)NYCgen.com
> MAILING ADDRESS: P.O. Box 780063, Maspeth, NY 11378
> AOL, MSN, & Yahoo Instant Messenger ID: Nycgen1
> Pay Securely Online--For FREE!
> https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=jim@nycgen.com
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more:
> Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at
> http://resources.rootsweb.com/
>
==============================
Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more:
Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at
http://resources.rootsweb.com/
--part1_5d.e6fa21.26faef05_boundary--
Dear Folks,
Does anyone on the list recognize any of the names below?
These Carpenters gave the ultimate sacrifice to their Country during the
Korean War. (1950-1953)
If you can help identify their families, maybe we can include them in
the Carpenter CD.
Also if "yes" is marked for DNA needed, and you know the family,
possible remains have been found. Please call 1-800-892-2490.
Thank You for caring enough to check.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
U.S. Army ASA Veteran
http://www.koreanwar.org/com/name_search/results.cfm
Name Search - 16 Records Found On Rolls
DNA NEEDED FIRST NAME MIDDLE LAST NAME SERVICE STATE
yes BENNY CARPENTER A
OH
CHARLES FRANKLIN CARPENTER M
LA
DOUGLAS CARPENTER A
LA
DOUGLAS RAY CARPENTER A
NY
yes GERALD W CARPENTER A
PA
HAROLD L CARPENTER A
NY
yes HARVEY E CARPENTER A
MA
JOHN ADRIAN CARPENTER M
MA
OTIS C CARPENTER A
MO
ROBERT E CARPENTER A
IL
yes ROBERT EVA CARPENTER A
OK
ROBERT JOHN CARPENTER M
NY
ROBERT W CARPENTER A
NC
SAM JASPER CARPENTER M
MS
WESLEY B CARPENTER A
MI
XAVIER O CARPENTER A
MS
South of Columbus, OH, is a beautiful and wild area known as the Hocking
Hills. If this was an important family, maybe they are the ones the Hills
are named for. Just an idea.
George
---
George R. Carpenter
carpgl(a)ismi.net
----------
> From: MzCortez(a)aol.com
> To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CARPENTER] FYI
> Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 9:42 PM
>
> ABRIDGED COMPENDIUEM OF AMERICA GENEALOGY, FIRST FAMILYS OF AMERICA
> VOL. 4 PG 277
>
> William Francis Hocking M.D. 1836--1903 of Yonkers New York, and
> Cleveland, Ohio, married 1871, Julia Carpenter born 1848 Southbridge,
> had issue; (a) Grace Louise born 1875, married PROFESSOR WILLIAM H
> RUNYON.
There is plenty of good "medieval stuff" in the IGI,
faithfully copied from good sources. Unfortunately there
is what Jason Carpenter called "Mormon crap genealogy"
like the William 'the Carpenter' DeMelun theory of
Carpenter origins. If the two Walters really had the title 'de Gouy'
they would indeed be candidates as ancestors of
the Herefordshire Carpenters. I had hoped someone would
take the bait and research this. Alas, all I reeled
in was a Chandler. Pathetic outcome, but such are
a fisherman's fortunes.
BC
Bruce wrote:
> Noticed in the IGI data that Raoul de Gouy
> had a son Walter and he turn a Walter that d.
> in 1020. This ends where the Jean le Carpentier data
> begins in the 1030s.
> Te IGI also says that the two Walters
> were titled 'de Gouy'. This I cannot confirm. But if true the above Gouy
> line maintained rights to the castle and property until 1020
> from father to son. This suggests the Herefordshire Carpenters
> were descendants of Hucbald.
Sorry, Bruce, but the stuff in the IGI should not be called "data".
At best, it provides clues as to what data might exist (except in the
case of the directly extracted vital records, but that obviously
doesn't apply to medieval stuff). Even if the stuff turns out to be
true in general, you have to expect that the IGI will faithfully
copy the surname from father to son, regardless of rights to castles
or other property. It makes no sense to jump to conclusions (or even
limp to conclusions) based on such meager clues.
John Chandler
Dear Craig and all:
I had posted an annoucement of my essay. Perhaps it hadn't gone through
as I was in the midst of leaving Seattle for Osaka. My history of the
medieval
Charpenter family is near completion and is over 50 pages in length. It will
be published in a university research journal (December ?)
and will be permanently available at major
universities like Harvard, Yale and Princeton. In addition, copies will go
to institutions like the City of London School etc. A quantity of offprints
will be available in the spring for those who wish to request one.
Later perhaps I may put it on the internet as a web page.
Sincerely,
Bruce E. Carpenter
Hello Bruce, I am one of the many that sit on the bank and watch the flow of
information go by on the Carpenter rootsweb mail list. My name is Craig
Carpenter, live now in Kansas, ancestors go back thru Vermont, RI, back to
William of Rehobeth. I have watced and collected the discussions over time
with your work on the early Carpenter history and it is very interesting to
me.
You had mentioned at on time you were doing or going to do an essay on your
research in this area. I must ask if you have done this, or what state the
essay is at this time? I have always enjoyed the way in which you have
presented this information and always look forward to the next discussion
about medival history on the Carpenter, Melun, and now Gouy families.
It must be a pleasure to have the time and especially the access you have to
all the information that you present. I am not as serious as most about all
the history other than it gives me a lot of enjoyment.
Thank You
Craig Robert Carpenter
Information
This is the Carpenter Cousins Rootsweb. Since many Zimmermans became Carpenters, Both are discussed here along with related DNA information.