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> From: Dorothy <muirhead(a)inebraska.com>
> To: Carpenter-L(a)roostweb.com
> Subject: Hannah Carpenter 1758 - 1850 NY
> Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:21 PM
>
> Seeking desc of Hannah Carpenter m. Zophar Scidmore and in the L.I. or
> Saratoga, NY area.
> Dorothy Muirhead(a)inebraska.com
>
Dear Folks,
Sorry I forgot the most useful site!
http://members.aol.com/ballywoodn/acheraldry.html
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
John Carpenter wrote:
>
> Dear Nova,
>
> In the United States Coats of Arms and Family Crests are used and
> exchanged without abiding by traditional European rules.
>
> In England for example you can be held criminally and civilly
> responsible for misrepresenting yourself with a Family Crest or Coat of
> Arms.
>
> The following are places on the internet that can help explain Coat of
> Arms and Family Crests.
>
> Terry Lee Carpenter of TX did an excellent article on Carpenter Coat of
> Arms several years ago. If he gives permission, I will place it on the
> Forum.
>
> John R. Carpenter
> La Mesa, CA
>
> In no pacticular order ...
>
> http://www.fleurdelis.com/coatofarms.htm
>
> http://www.digiserve.com/heraldry/
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4369/Bookplate/heraldring/admring...
>
> NovaCarthage(a)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > If a person wanted to find a real coat of arms, what would a person have
> > to do to prove it is real? Or how can you find out if there are real coats of
> > arms out there for a particular individual that you might descend from.
> >
> > I am not seeking a coat of arms, but rather, I am try to understand what
> > it takes to document and find a real coat of arms. I have heard of others
> > claiming to have a real coat of arms, but I am not sure what these people
> > mean by real.
> >
> > I have been told that a coat of arms is given or assigned to a particular
> > individual and only certain descendants of that person are allowed to claim
> > and use it, mainly the oldest son to the oldest son and so on. I have heard
> > of different view points when it comes to descendants claiming coat of arms,
> > so it might be different for different coats of arms.
> >
> > . I have also been told, that in the UK, coats of arms are treated like
> > personal property and to copy someone else's coat of arms would be like
> > forging a person's signature.
> >
> > In any case, I was wondering what the correct or best method is in finding
> > and claiming to use a real coat of arms.
> >
> > I guess I just wanted to be better educated on the subject
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Nova
Best place is a college Library or big city library find Burke's General
Amory, or Baron's Peerage review (not sure of spelling of the last on )
these books explain coats of arms well
As far as I know, the only laws in the US concerning heraldry are the
laws governing the uses of the American flag and colors. In other
words, any coat of arms is totally up for grabs in this country, except
insofar as certain emblems have been trademarked. What most people
would consider to be a "real" coat of arms is something that is (or
would be) recognized as such in the country of origin. If that country
is England, then there is no "would be" about it -- to be real, the arms
would have to *be* registered with the College of Heralds. I'm not sure
whether it is even possible for a non-British-subject to do such a
thing. If it isn't, then you would have to renounce your American
citizenship just to get started on the process. This is serious stuff.
John Chandler
Hi
If a person wanted to find a real coat of arms, what would a person have
to do to prove it is real? Or how can you find out if there are real coats of
arms out there for a particular individual that you might descend from.
I am not seeking a coat of arms, but rather, I am try to understand what
it takes to document and find a real coat of arms. I have heard of others
claiming to have a real coat of arms, but I am not sure what these people
mean by real.
I have been told that a coat of arms is given or assigned to a particular
individual and only certain descendants of that person are allowed to claim
and use it, mainly the oldest son to the oldest son and so on. I have heard
of different view points when it comes to descendants claiming coat of arms,
so it might be different for different coats of arms.
. I have also been told, that in the UK, coats of arms are treated like
personal property and to copy someone else's coat of arms would be like
forging a person's signature.
In any case, I was wondering what the correct or best method is in finding
and claiming to use a real coat of arms.
I guess I just wanted to be better educated on the subject
Thank you
Nova
For everyone's info: Stonehedge is in Amesbury where the carpenters were from prior to Coming to USA in 1636
04:49 PM ET 06/19/00
Stonehenge To Be Open for Solstice
LONDON (AP) _ For the first time in 16 years, the public will be
able to greet the dawn of the summer _ the first of the new
millennium _ at the ancient stone circle of Stonehenge.
But fearing a return of the unruly revelers who have defiled the
monument in the past, site owners English Heritage have agreed to
open the stones for just eight hours, starting Tuesday night.
Security will be tight at the site on Salisbury plain, 80 miles
southwest of London. And camping, fires, dogs and amplified music
will be forbidden.
Stonehenge, a double circle of large stones erected by
prehistoric Britons 5,000 years ago, became a popular spot for
solstice celebrations in the late 1980s, when pagan worshippers
flocked to the site to perform age-old ceremonies.
In 1988, a group of 4,000 revelers tried to break police lines
to join the white-robed druids. Following clashes, nine people were
injured and 70 arrested.
Two years ago, 100 people were allowed to attend the solstice by
prior arrangement, an event which proved peaceful. But last year
riot police had to be called in after gatecrashers pushed down
fences and clambered on the stones.
Druids, for whom the solstice is the holiest day of the year,
believe Stonehenge was a center for pre-Christian and astronomical
worship and therefore consider it a sacred site.
English Heritage has said it will decide whether to open the
stones for future solstices after seeing how people behave this
year.
If anyone gets a 'Japanese Box', please inform.
While on the subject of heraldry, I discovered the following
last year. In the printed Heraldic Visitations from the late 1500s, the
earliest
form of the Carpenter arms shows a 'celestial globe' and not a
'terrestrial globe'. The two look quite different. 'Terrestrial Globes'
became
popular quite late. If the full version of the Carpenter arms are any older
than
1600,and I think they are, they should show the 'celestial globe' as the
proper
crest. Lord George Carpenter's arms with the gold terrestrial globe is
not the traditional version. The stand that the globe sits in should be
black.
My guess is that in the 1400s when the gentry Carpenters
adopted and adapted Bishop Carpenter's arms, they added the
'celestial globe'. They were descendants of merchants and probably
liked the idea of ships and associated objects like globes. Much later
when the 'celestial globe ' went out of style, they used the other from the
1700s.
BC
Is this really a problem? I have noticed this character-set spec, too,
but I simply ignore it. There isn't really any Japanese text in any
of the messages, so nothing is lost. ISO-2022 is really just a
mechanism for switching back and forth between character sets, not a
requirement for multiple language support.
John Chandler
This is my Carpenter line. I am brickwalled with Amos. Does anyone have a
lead to his parentage?
Amos Carpenter
b. Apr 1787, Rensselaer Co., New York
d. 28 Mar 1858, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
& Susannah Rose
daughter of Lemuel and Achsah Hale Rose
b. 18 Jun 1791, Granville, Hampden, Massachusetts
d. 2 Dec 1827, Granville, Licking Co., Ohio
m. 27 Feb 1810, Licking Co., Ohio
| Lemuel S. Carpenter
| b. Apr 1811, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. Jul 1811, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| Louisa Carpenter
| b. 29 Jul 1812, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 28 Aug 1868, Columbus, Ohio
| & Rev. Sabin Hough
| m. 20 Aug 1840, Granville, Licking Co., Ohio, St.Luke's Church
| | Alice Hough
| | b. 1843
| | Simpson Hough
| | b. 1848
| Timothy R. Carpenter
| b. 3 Dec 1814, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 26 Oct 1884, Columbus, Franklin, Ohio
| & Angelet Curtis
| b. 3 Apr 1813, New Hampshire
| d. 19 Dec 1860, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| m. 29 Jul 1844, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | Mattie W. Carpenter
| | b. abt 1847, Ohio
| | Amos L. Carpenter
| | b. abt 1850, Ohio
| Timothy R. Carpenter
| b. 3 Dec 1814, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 26 Oct 1884, Columbus, Franklin, Ohio
| & Roselia C. Camp
| b. 21 Sep 1821
| d. 17 Mar 1896
| m. 11 Aug 1864, Granville, Licking Co., Ohio, St.Luke's Church
| Truman W. Carpenter
| b. 14 Apr 1817, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 1 Aug 1892, Westerville, Franklin, Ohio
| & Mary E. Short
| b. 14 Apr 1835, Lowell, Ohio
| d. 3 Apr 1894, Westerville, Ohio
| Stephen Van Rensselaer Carpenter
| b. 7 Oct 1821, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 14 Aug 1899, Montgomery Tw, Franklin Co., Ohio
| & Naomi Jane Hankins
| b. 25 Oct 1840, Clinton Co, Ohio
| d. 5 Apr 1927, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| m. 16 Apr 1860, Clinton County, Ohio
| | Van Rensselaer Carpenter
| | b. 22 Jul 1861, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 3 Sep 1917, Perry, Taylor Co., Florida
| | & Mrs. Carpenter
| | d. bef 1910
| | m. bef 1910
| | Van Rensselaer Carpenter
| | b. 22 Jul 1861, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 3 Sep 1917, Perry, Taylor Co., Florida
| | & Isabel Kelly
| | b. 16 Apr 1886, Holt, Santa Rosa Co., Florida
| | d. 21 Apr 1958, Moss Point, Jackson Co., Mississippi
| | m. 14 Dec 1913, DeFuniak Springs, Walton, Florida
| | | Stephen Van Rensselaer Carpenter , Sr.
| | | b. 7 Mar 1915, Perry, Taylor, Florida
| | | d. 28 Nov 1966, Moss Point, Jackson Co., Mississippi
| | | & Carrie Lee Walther
| | | b. 2 Jan 1912, Bethel community, Escambia Co., Alabama
| | | m. 25 Dec 1936, Milton, Santa Rosa, Florida
| | | John Raymond Carpenter
| | | b. 27 Sep 1916, Perry, Taylor Co., Florida
| | | d. 20 Sep 1944, At sea
| | | & Dorothy Champion
| | | b. 28 Feb 1921, Pleasant Grove, Chickasaw Co., Mississippi
| | | d. 25 Oct 1981
| | Infant Carpenter
| | b. 19 Apr 1864, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 19 Apr 1864, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | Grace Kimball Carpenter , Musician
| | b. Nov 1866, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 19 Dec 1935, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | Del N. Carpenter
| | b. 20 Feb 1868, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 9 Jan 1937, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | Ida E. Carpenter
| | b. 4 Jan 1870, Columbus, Franklin, Ohio
| | d. 13 Sep 1870, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | Daisy May Carpenter, Dance Instr.
| | b. Jun 1871, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 9 Feb 1959, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | Louise Naomi Carpenter , Artist
| | b. Oct 1873, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 15 May 1909, Cordele, Georgia
| | & Albert S. Gideon
| | m. 18 Nov 1907, Miami, Dade, Florida
| | Annie E. Carpenter
| | b. Aug 1875, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 23 Oct 1876, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | Hattie Harrisson Carpenter , Journalist, Educator
| | b. Apr 1877, Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio
| | d. 21 Aug 1956, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | Mamie M. Carpenter
| | b. Dec 1878, Piqua, Miami Co., Ohio
| | d. 26 Oct 1957, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | & Harry Tristan Ferris
| | b. 1870, Stamford, Connecticut
| | d. 31 May 1921
| | m. 30 Mar 1903, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | | Harry Tristan Ferris, Jr.
| | | b. 22 Feb 1904, Miami, Florida
| | | d. 5 May 1988, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | | Stephen Nathaniel Ferris
| | | b. 10 Nov 1905, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| | | d. 15 Jan 1996, Miami, Dade Co., Florida
| Stephen Van Rensselaer Carpenter
| b. 7 Oct 1821, Granville, Licking, Ohio
| d. 14 Aug 1899, Montgomery Tw, Franklin Co., Ohio
| & Sarah Jennie Mason
| b. 27 Sep 1838, Cassville, Missouri
| d. 8 Jan 1857, Columbus, Franklin, Ohio
| m. 1855
Thank you,
Barbara Carpenter Martin
Hello List;
I have been complaining about this for some time now, there was only one person
that I was receiving this message when reading his e-mail, the one who's message
comes to me as From "carpenter". I wrote to him but nothing has been done, still
receiving the message.
It seems that in the last few days that there has been quite a few messages
coming thru with this message popping up, to name a few they are from:
"carpenter" BC
"The Carpenters" George C
"Sandra Konczak" Sandra
The problem might be in the International Settings under the Send tab in the
Options settings (if you are using Outlook Express). The setting should read
Western European (ISO) for the Default encoding, that is what mine is set for.
If I am wrong, please correct me.
This has really become quite a pain having the popup come up about the Japanese
text and I refuse to set here for 23 minutes downloading a 2.7 megabite Japanese
text file.
I am on 15 other lists and have not had this problem on any of them.
I wish we had a list owner, that way we could get this straightened out.
Donald Keiffer
Please reply if the box appeared. The setting
for messages automatically returns to Japanese from
the Western European setting. Hard to remember
to change it. The real 'Japanese Box' is
my house.
BC
Gee, I hope I don't get that message. I would think someone was trying to
send me a nasty virus.
I really do wish everyone would put Carpenter in the subject line. I know I
have deleted several messages because I did not know who sent them. My
Arkansas list has (AGS) in front of all messages which really helps me. -
Gloria
I have the same problem. It stems from Professor Bruce, I believe, in
Japan. I don't know what causes it, but to reply requires using the Greek
alphabet.
George C.
----------
> From: Sandra Konczak <skonczak(a)camalott.com>
> To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: question
> Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 11:37 AM
>
> Whenever I open a message from the list, I get a window that exhibits
> message which conveys the need to download a Japenese language in order
for
> the characters to be displayed properly. Does anyone else get this
> message?
>
> Thank you,
> Sandra
Harry, do you know if William Clayton Carpenter ever lived in Arkansas? I
don't find my Carpenters in Kentucky but in Virginia, Alabama, and Arkansas.
- Thanks Gloria
Follow up on posts dated 3-9-00; 3-20-00; 3-27-00; 4-4-00 and 5-14-00 on
George ( Zimmerman ) and Anna ( Shitley ) Carpenter's descendants;
This segment is about Jacob #3 Carpenter's
( b.8-5-1807 in Va. d. 5-14-1868 ) 2nd marriage about 1848 to Nancy
McGraw b.7-19-1826 in Mercer co. Ky. d. 3-12-1897.They are both buried
in the Jacob Carpenter Cem. near Perryville, Ky.Nancy was the daughter
of William and Priscilla McGraw. Jacob and Nancy's children were;
(1). Geneva Carpenter b.1-16-1849 d.11-3-1906
1st married 9-5-1868 to Talton Lee Crain Sr. b. 1-10-1842 d.6-23-1872.
He was the son of John G. and Cinderella ( Bottom ) Crain, of Boyle Co.
KY.
(a) Talton Lee Crain Jr.1st. m. 9-25-1896 Zula Stewart Bottom
(aa) Richard ;
(bb) Clifford ;
(cc) Stewart ;
(dd) May;
(ee) Arnola;
(ff) Nina;
(gg) maybe one of 2 more infants died young.
(a) Talton Lee Crain Jr. 2nd. m. Margaret Baker
There were children,do not know their names.
(1) Geneva Carpenter 2nd. m. 4-3-1888 to James Tadlock
(b) Oma Tadlock 1st m. Rosco Gray; 2nd. m.
Herbert Bottom,
(c) Edd Tadlock b. 12-30-1889
I have Geneva's Old Family Bible , it is in pretty bad shape. Geneva and
both of her husbands are buried in the Jacob Carpenter Cem.
( 2) Samantha Carpenter b. 2-4-1850 d. 5-19-1908 1st m. 3-14-1866 to
Francis Marion
Carpenter ( her 1st. cousin) b.4-7-1842 d. 12-8-1929.He was the son fo
George Washington Carpenter, Jacob's #3 brother.
Francis Marion Carpenter was a soilder in the union army. No children in
this marriage.
Do not have any info on 2nd. marriage.
(3)William Clayton Carpenter b.7-2-1851 d. 12-18-1926 m. Sarah Amanda
Stewart b.3-16-1861 d. 12-19-1939. Their children were;
(a) Elmer Lee m. Amanda Foster
(b) Bertha Lou
(c) Jacob Allen
(d) Emmaline
(f) Cordelia May
(g) William Jordan
(h) James Woodsoon
(i) Samantha m. Brisco White
(j) Dottie Belle
(K) Cleo Helen
(4) John Henry Carpenter b.12-2-1852 d. 11-11-1855. Died from burns
received from a pot of boiling water. I think his grave was the first
one in Jacob Carpenter Cem.
(5) Nannie Belle Carpenter b.12-25-1854 d. 2-3-1918, m.7-31-1871 to
Jefferson Powell b. 1-17-1849 d.5-5-1935
(a) William O. ( Bud) m.Mattie Williams
(b) Samuel Henry
(c) J. Allen
(d) James Albert
(e) Rose
(6) James Buchanan b.7-11-1856 d. 1-28-1920;
m. 1-27-1874 to Augusta Critchfield b. 10-23-1854 d. 3-12-1948 at age
94. She was the daughter of Amos and Sarah ( Crain ) Critchfield.. I am
not listing their children at this time as this is my direct line. They
were my Grandparents. I have alot of info on them and will post it in
the next post.
(7) George A. Carpenter b.9-7-1859 d.11-16-1904, 1st m.9-6-1877 to Lucy
Morton b.8-4-1860 d.5-3-1886.
(a) Gilbert
(b) Mamie
(c) Della
(7) George A. Carpenter 2nd m. Betty Linney
(d) Ida
(e) Marion
(f) Pete
Will post more as time permitts.
Harry Carpenter
Dear Ann,
I was searching for one of the sisters of my GGgrandfather, and I saw
someone who might have been the right one, but she was from Cheshire
County, NH. Does this David by any chance have a son (or even a grandson,
I guess) named John CARPENTER, who was born in about 1797?
This is an exciting thing for the Carpenters, isn't it?! I see you are in
TX. Are you planning to get up to NH? We are most likely to be in that
area in the "color season" this year, but may go to upstate NY earlier. If
so, we might be able to make a run over for the ceremony. It would be
especially "cool" if my GGGgrandfather John happened to be a descendant of
David or of one of his brothers. Or of anyone I could put a name to!!
Shot in the dark moment: are you by any chance related to Bob and Diane
Dennis, presently of MI?
George
---
George R. Carpenter
Pinckney, Michigan
carpgl(a)ismi.net
----------
> Yesterday I received official approval from the national DAR for
placement of
> a Revolutionary marker on the grave of my ancestor, David Carpenter. He
was
> born in January 1759 in Ashford, Windham County, Connecticut and died
April
> 4, 1845 in Keene, Cheshire County, New Hampshire.
> Sincerely,
> Ann Carter Dennis
> San Antonio, TX
Dear Carpenters,
Yesterday I received official approval from the national DAR for placement of
a Revolutionary marker on the grave of my ancestor, David Carpenter. He was
born in January 1759 in Ashford, Windham County, Connecticut and died April
4, 1845 in Keene, Cheshire County, New Hampshire. David fought throughout
the entire Revolutionary War, participating in such events as the hanging of
Major Andre and the Battle of Saratoga with the subsequent surrender of
Burgoyne.
The ceremony will be held at the Washington Street Cemetery in Keene, NH,
hopefully, on July 21 at 1:00. I do hope that any nearby Carpenters or
interested friends will be able to join us. I would especially love to hear
from any of David's direct descendants.
Many thanks to John L Carpenter and, also, the Ashuelot Chapter of the DAR
for their local help in this presentation to honor David Carpenter.
Sincerely,
Ann Carter Dennis
San Antonio, TX
Chuck,
I think you're a moron, but want to STAY ON the list. (I just said that
because I think we need to have all sides represented here, and you left
that one out.) I like having things so that we can be a little relaxed
every day in writing, so that we can have a little levity as we go.
However, if we go to a one-day soap-box day, how about calling it Hyde
Park? Then we can each set up our own little box and make our speeches,
and delete to our hearts' content. Just so we don't get so
compartmentalized in this regard that a side comment to inject a touch of
jocularity is bombarded with criticism. Been there, left that.
George R.
----------
> I get letters of encouragement and letters telling me I'm a moron and
they
> want off the list NOW.
> Chuck the list guy
Spoken like a true Republican! :--)
George R.
-----------
> By the way, the US is not a Democracy, where majority rules, but
rather
> the US is a Republic, where minorities have the right to be heard. People
> keep forgetting this, so that is why I wanted to remind you all.
> Thank you
> Nova
Information
This is the Carpenter Cousins Rootsweb. Since many Zimmermans became Carpenters, Both are discussed here along with related DNA information.