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Classification: Query
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Dear Karelle,
We have so many questions and not enough answers, I'm afraid.
Firstly, I was going to send you the only picture of Patrick Carmody I have, a bad
photocopy of an old photo. I think it comes form a photo album that an old cousin of my
father has, but he's hanging on to it! Sadly Ancestry only allows Gedcom or graphics
files attachments, so we may have to exchange private e-mails for you to get a copy.
The photocopy is of the whole page of the album, and Patrick's picture is between
those of Mary Carmody [nee Hoy, Tom's wife] and Margaret Brigdale [nee Carmody] so I
think that indicates he was one of the family. The photo of Patrick was taken in
Toowoomba, so when I go looking at microfiches on Saturday, I'll have a good look for
any sign that Patrick and Mary Jane married in Queensland, or that Patrick died there.
However, the caption to his photo reads: "Patrick Carmody born Bathurst died
?Moree". I hear from other relatives that the librarian at Moree is very helpful on
family history matters, so we may be able to write to her to find if Patrick did indeed
die at Moree and if we could get his death certificate, we could then see if we have the
same Patrick!
Apart from the one photo, I don't have any other defining evidence for Patrick being
the son of Patrick and Bridget but I did a lot of thinking about it yesterday, and I think
that I have circumstantial evidence, as Margaret Carmody, and her husband [William]
Michael Brigdale were living in the Wellingrove area, the same time as Patrick and Mary
Jane. The Brigdales were having children at the same time as Patrick and Mary Jane, but
also left the area at about the same time.
Michael and Margaret Brigdale's children were;
1. Richard Blake Brigdale b 1870 Armidale - d after 1906 NSW m 1892 Paddington,Sydney.
Myrtle Lillian Kentwell [b 28 Mar 1873 - d 26 Mar 1954]
2. Maud E. Brigdale b abt 1871 Armidale area - d 4 July, 1911 Wickham, Newcastle. Maud did
not marry.
3. Hugh Brigdale b 1872 - d 1875 Wellingrove
4. Clara Agnes Brigdale b 1875 Wellingrove - d 1881 Paddington, Sydney
5. George A. W. Brigdale b 1877 Vegetable Creek - d 4 May 1948 Newcastle m Ellen Curran
1917 Hamilton, Newcastle
6. Twins Mark & Mabel Brigdale b 1879 Paddington, Sydney
I have no more infromation on Mabel, but I think that Percival M. Brigdale, who died in
Paddington, Sydney, in 1879 was probably one and the same person as Mark. On the subject
of twins, there is a strong history of non-identical twins in the Carmody family, so if
any have popped up in your family, it may be indirect evidence of kinship.
So to my branch - I am a great grandaughter of Tom Carmody and Mary Hoy. They married on
"Wirrah" Station, near Moree on 3 March, 1864. Early on in their marriage, they
had a hotel called "The Sportsman Arms" at Bungle Gully, Come-by-Chance. Later
they moved to Wee Waa and ran another hotel there. Tom moved on to manage "Curragundi
" Station, Warialda, where he stayed 9 years. He then took up a selection
"Edithville", where he stayed another 9 years. Later the family moved to
Mungindi, where many of his descendants still live.
Their children were;
1. Frank b 17 Apr 1865 NSW - d 11 Aug 1936 QLD Frank did not marry.
2. Amy E. b1867 - d 1869 Wee Waa
3. Amy Valentine b 14 Feb 1869 Wee Waa - d 8 July 1948 Cardiff, Newcastle m 1892 Moree
District, Arnott Leslie [b1864 - d 1945]
4. Annie Myra b 1871 Warialda - d 3 Dec 1960 Mungindi m 10 Dec 1897 ?Queensland, Edward
Terence Carlon [b abt1869 - d 1916]
5. Thomas b 1874 Warialda - d 8 Oct 1930 Mitchell, QLD m ? Kitty ?Queensland
6. John b 17 May 1876 Wee Waa - d 1956 Gunnedah m 1907 Moree District Winifred Carlile
[b 14 Aug 1876 - d abt June 1965]
7. Edith Mary b 3 Aug 1878 "Curragundi" Station, Warialda - d 2 July 1968 Sydney
m 8 Jan 1908 Sydney William Henry Joseph Kirby [b 23 Feb 1877 - d 2 July 1949]
8. Fanny Elizabeth b 1881 Warialda - d abt 1965 Sydney] 1. Partner William James Noud [b
1881 - 14 May 1917 The Somme]
2. m in 1920s E. Lake [b? d?]
9. Wilfred Clarence b 1884 Narrabri - d abt 1958 NSW m 28 Apr 1908 Moree District, Ida F.
Adams [b 1887 - d?]
As I said, I thought a lot about what you wrote, and I have few questions that arise from
that. Here goes!
Had Mary Jane's father forgiven her, when he agreed to take care of her four little
sons? A likely scenario seems to be that Patrick had indeed died, and Mary Jane had gone
home to her widowed father with her children, a normal thing to do . However when she got
pregnant to someone else [?Kate Ritchie's brother], either her father threw her out or
she fled to Sydney to have the baby. Were any of her family in Sydney at the time? It
doesn't appear so, as she seemed to have been destitute [lying about Patrick deserting
her] and desperate, perhaps even selling herself to survive, hence the syphilis. After
losing Nina, she must have recovered enough to survive somehow, marry Edward, and have
another child, before seccumbing to TB, as often happened to young women in those days
after bearing a quick succession of children. What a sad short life she had.If poor little
Nina was syphilitic, why wasn't Mary Jane's next child so afflicted? Do you have
any information on Minnie Katheri!
ne? Did she live long? Could Mary have been in remission between the second and third
stages of syphilis and thus didn't pass it on? Did her second husband die from it?
But enough. Between us we'll work this out. Perhaps we'll have to do what my
husband's family has done, and get the male descendants to get their DNA compared. My
husband has found his 6th cousin in Bateman's Bay [or rather his cousin and I found
each other on the net] and they proved they go all the way back to a common ancestor in
1689 in Wiltshire! If we got some Carmody men from each family to agree, we may be able to
do the same. Be warned though, some of the Vines have had nasty surprises and have found
out they are not who they thought they were! As for Catherine Vines in Bathurst, I think
she is a descendant of Peter Vines who came as a convict, also from Wiltshire, but we
haven't quite tied him into the family yet.
Best Wishes,
Jenny