Hello Pauline,
Yes the records may be in Birmingham. Do you know the name of the Industrial
School? If you do I will have a look next time I go to the B'ham archives.
Whether they have it will depend how lucky you are with the records. For me
Desford Industrial School started in 1881 and through many guises went
through to the late 70's before closing.
They provided over 500 boxes of document to the Leicestershire archives. I
know I was lucky.
If the admissions forms still exist then they will show the name and address
of the parents.
It seems that Desford took pupils from all over the country. The admissions
book also included the education and description (of sorts) of the pupil.
Regards
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Pauline James [mailto:paulinejames@carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk]
Sent: 30 December 2007 18:03
To: kfrater(a)wannaemail.com; carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CMN-L] FRATER move from London to Carmarthenshire
Hi Kerry
Thank you ever so much for sharing this with us, I found it very very
interesting.
One part I was also interested in was that he was in an Industrial
School......I too have a grandfather who was in an Industrial school in
Birmingham in 1901 aged 14 but I could not find his parents anywhere in the
1901 census.....would they have the records in the Birmingham record office?
The information you have found is amazing.......
Still find it strange that he was removed from London to come to Llangunnor
in Carmarthenshire to live, a big move for him to a small little community
from a large City.
Thanks again for sharing
Happy New Year
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Frater" <kfrater(a)wannaemail.com>
To: <carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: [CMN-L] FRATER move from London to Carmarthenshire
(For those who don't want to read this. I have a question about D
Howells
of
Brigwallt, Llangunnor at the end)
First, I must thank all who have corresponded with me over this issue of
tracking down details of my Grandfather and how and why he got to South
Wales as a teenager having been born in London from a family that had
previously migrated south from Scotland.
Well with your help and others, I have finally pieced together the
information and now know the history of his journey. It has, of course,
opened up new questions which will help me with knowing and understanding
more. But the proof of my line and link is now complete with no ambiguity.
Edward FRATER was born 12 Nov 1889 in Islington, London. I believed this
to
be my Grandfather although there were questions about him being "adopted"
and "born in Scotland". So I kept looking and cross-referencing. My
Grandfather's marriage certificate showed his father to be "Oliver?". The
question mark was confusing, especially as I knew his children were named
after his siblings.
A message to you all, don't give up on trawling through census documents
if
you can't find your relatives. My family name has been mistranscribed so
many times. It took me months to find Oliver FRATER in the 1901 census. He
was listed as Olwin fraten. That was one of the easy ones. At least I had
an
idea of where he lived.
Edward was seen in the 1891 census but disappeared in the 1901. I tried
every various connotation of the name that I could in London. Checked the
poor houses, workhouses and anything else I could think of. Such as living
with a relative but with a different family name. This meant I have about
80-90+ possibles within a small geographic distance of Islington. All had
to
be researched and checked to see if they may or may not be my Grandfather.
I
know I have not being doing this solidly but this is roughly 5 years of
searching. Occasionally going back to lists like here for advice and help.
And you have been great. Believe me. Sometimes researchiong can be
frustrating and get you down. And it has helped me tremendously hearing
good
stories on the list.
Anyway just before Christmas I get an email from another FRATER researcher
(another tree) in Australia. They had come across an Edward FRAKER at
Ratby
Industrial in Leicestershire . She said that this caught her eye because
he
was 11 and born in London. The school was actually called at that time
Desford Industrial School.
Well FRAKER is a family name, which I found in Leicestershire but a search
in the BMD indexes shows now child of that time in the 1889 time period.
So
a visit was planned to the Leicestershire Archives office after its
Christmas period.
What a fantastic group of people there. They couldn't be more helpful and
I
can't praise them highly enough. Even the Chief Archivist helped me out
because much of the data and documents are closed to the public. A number
of
the school documents spanned a number of years which meant they contained
data less than 100 years old. He had looked up items for me and ensured I
saw the relevant parts. Although they do not allow photography they do
make
copies for you. Adam, the Chief Archivist had received an email from me
and
had found some details prior to me arriving. He would be good on Time
Team,
drip feeding you with some information before announcing that he had found
his details along with his parents details proving he was the son of the
people I believed to be my Gt Grandparents. I have to admit, it was quite
exciting.
I was shown the log book, admissions book and admissions forms for the
pupils of Edward's period, which I spent most of the day reading. The
"number" that the enumerator had put on the 1901 census form was his pupil
number which made life a little easier. It had the name and address of his
parents and it these documents showed that he is indeed my Grandfather.
Without any shadow of a doubt.
He was committed to the school by a magistrate. The crime? At the age of
eight he was found wandering the streets of Clerkenwell [London] without
correct Guardianship. The punishment? To be sent to Desford Industrial
School in Leicestershire until the age of 16.
Although we think this horrific today, I have now read the logs. The
school
had a good reputation of its type. They were regularly inspected and The
London Chief examiner said that it was the best school, Board or
Industrial,
that he had ever visited. It certainly gave my Grandfather an education
and
a disciplined work ethic that helped him throughout his life.
But the best was yet to come.
Also in the admissions form was a letter written on 19th January 1905 by a
C
Oxley stating that Edward was to be released from the school supervision
on
11th Nov 1905 (day before his 16th birthday) and that he was "allocated"
to
a D Howels of Llangunnor, Carmarthenshire as a Farm Boy for the wage of £7
per annum which would increase to £8 per annum after 1 year depending on
his
abilities.
The mystery was solved.
I found out where he was in 1901. How he was parted from his family. I
also
learnt how and why he came to South Wales.
I already knew that there he married a local girl from a Welsh speaking
family. I know he learnt the language. My father was brought up as a Welsh
speaker.
I know that I couldn't have reached this point so quickly (I think to get
here in 6 years compared to may others is great) if wasn't for the help
and
encouragement from groups such as the Carmarthenshire group.
I just wanted to make a public thank you and remind newcomers. It really
is
worth persevering.
So now to my new questions.
Who is this D Howells of Brigwallt, Llangunnor? Did he often take in
labourers from Desford?
By 1914 (year of his marriage) he had become a miner. Obviously better
paid.
So I do not know how long he stayed with Mr Howells. But that is just
another part of the story for me to find out.
Blwyddyn Newydd Da I chi gyd. A pob lwc yn eich ymchwil
(I use my language rarely these days so the spelling and grammar is
probably
attrocious)
My best wishes
Kerry
Dyfed Free Genealogy Online
http://www.genuk-online.com/dyfedfreegen/index.htm
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