Hi there
I did wonder about that... by family tradition this Hughes family was somehow related to
the Hugh Price Hughes family, although I have been unable to find a connection thus far.
Hugh Price Hughes was a very prominent Methodist.
As a Quaker, I know that the authorities didn't regard Quaker marriage as valid for
centuries, and being a Quaker was a bar to public office, going to university,joining any
of the services - but people marrying in the Quaker meeting house DID regard themelves as
married, and lived together, and the women did take the husband's surname.
I'm wondering if there was a class problem: Charles Henry Hughes seems to have been
solidly middle class, and his sister married a barrister and her son went to public
school, whereas Mary Jones is not? I don't know at al - I have had this picture of an
invalid wife away in a nursing home for a long time, it came as a bit of a shock that she
was on the census all the time, and unmarried.
Incidentally, there seems seems to have been a bit of a cad in Carmarthen around the same
time: the one known as John Hughes Gentleman, or Esq rather than "merchant"
(the merchant was CHH's father) seems to have sown his wild oats all over Carmarthen
with numerous young ladies, if the entries in the baptismal registers don't apply to
half a dozen gentlemen - and they don't seem to, seems to be one family which is
regarded as gentle.
bws
Fee
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.
Indeed, It is the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead
--- On Thu, 19/11/09, allen williams <gerald.williams23(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
From: allen williams <gerald.williams23(a)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Early methodists or Unmarried couple?
To: carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com
Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 2:21
How do!
Surely, from 1754-1837 Hardwicke's marriage act was in
force, so all
non-conformist marriages (except Quakers) were legally
invalid, unless
performed in the (Anglican) parish church with the active
co-operation of
the incumbent (which would not always be forthcoming). I'm
a tolerant sort
of bloke, but I can well understand that in the context of
the time a
staunch Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc., would have
refused to set
foot in, let alone marry in, a High Anglican church.
Best wishes
Allen Williams
Sale Cheshire
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:20:16 -0000, Caliandris
<caliandris(a)yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> Hi there,
> I am hoping that someone may have some insight ito a
rather strange
> thing in my family tree.
>
> My Great-Great Grandmother has always been very
elusive... and her
> mother too. Her name is Maria Elizabeth Hughes
and she was born around
> 1838 in Carmarthen. Her father was Charles Henry
Hughes, who seems to
> have been a well-off attorney and solicitor. He
seems to have left
> remarkably little mark considering that he was a Land
Tax Commissioner
> for Carmarthen, and the Borough Treasurer.
>
> I have found his parents John and Sarah Hughes, nee
Spence, and his
> siblings: John Edward, who died young, David Water,
Sophia, Mary Ann and
> Jane. I have found their baptisms, the parents
marriage, and John
> Hughes's death in 1829, and his will, in which he
mentioned both David
> Water and Charles Henry, and his wife and daughters.
>
> I have found no record of Charles Henry's birth, but
what is even
> stranger is that for the 1841 census, his children
Maria and Henry were
> not with him - they were with their maternal
grandmother, Mary Jones.
> Charles is at home with his Mother, although he is
about 33. Of course
> for the 1841 census, with a name like Jones in
Carmarthen, it is
> virtually impossible to trace the other members of the
family if away
> from home.
>
> Things get even stranger. For the 1851 census, there
are a lot more
> children, but they still aren't living with their
father - they are
> still with their grandmother and two of her children -
Ann Jones and
> William Jones. He's on his own with a housekeeper.
>
> I must admit I assumed that maybe the mother had died
in childbirth, but
> realised that couldn't be, because Charles Henry is
living with them at
> long last in 1861 and there's at least one more
child. But there is no
> sign of a mother.
>
> This morning, I found Henry Hughes' birth in
Llandarog. He is th eldest
> of the children and the only one to have been baptised
in church as far
> as I can find. His parents are given as H.
Hughes and Ann Jones, and in
> the Census for 1851 Ann is still shown as Jones
despite there being
> several more children. So the person I had been
ignoring all these
> years, thinking she was an aunt, was actually the
children's mother.
>
> I have no problem with having illegitimacy in my
family tree, but the
> dissonance between the upstanding member of society
and the idea of half
> a dozen children born out of wedlock seems a
bit...well odd. It's also
> odd that he was an attorney and solicitor and yet the
children's births
> don't seem to have been registered. I know this
was the responsibility
> of the registrar and not the parent at this date, but
even so...I have
> ancestors that were porters and ushers in another part
of my family tree
> - and they all managed to register their children's
births!
>
> I wondered if Methodist marriage wasn't recognised by
the authorities
> initially (Charles Henry Hughes was born around
1807). Or...or... I'm a
> bit flummoxed by it really. It was frustrating
not to be abe to find
> Maria or Charles Henry's birth, but this is even more
mysterious really.
> Fee
>
>
>
>
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>
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