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Could the List help me on a matter of Patronymics.
I am helping a friend with his family tree. We have traced it back to a Thomas Samuel whose birth on 4th July, 1799 is recorded on the Register of Llanedi, Newhouse Independent Chapel (in Welsh known as "Ty newydd")
The Register shows the parents as being Samuel Gibbs and Sarah. Their other children, Ann Samuel and Griffith Samuel, are also shown on the same register.
I am confident from surrounding information that we have the right person, but my friend will not accept this. He says that as his surname is Samuel it is not possible for him to be descended down the male line from someone called "Gibbs". I say that this is what Patronymics is all about. Can the List confirm that I am correct and explain how patronymics were still operational at the start of C19th in industrial south -east Carmarthenshire. (The Register for Newhouse has other examples)
If I am wrong will the List say so, and I will then have to grovel.
John
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CARMARTHENSHIRE BIRTHS, MARRIAGES & DEATHS
DEATHS INDEX
Carmarthen Registration District 1837-1849
Lampeter Registration District 1837-1849
Llandeilo Fawr Registration District 1837-1849
Llandovery Registration District 1837-1849
Llanelly Registration District 1837-1849
Narberth Registration District 1837-1849
Newcastle in Emlyn Registration District 1837-1849
Find Under/Wales/Carmarthenshire/Carmarthenshire BMD's
25/02/2009
Regards
Richard
http://www.UK-Genealogy-Online.com
Free Genealogy Online
http://www.free-genealogy-online.info
You are not incorrect as I have a number of lines in my family tree with
the patronymics. I think it is quite interesting......Think of the fun it
would be if it was Swedish research.......Patty
----- Original Message -----
From: "10John" <10John(a)ewalters.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <Carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:11 AM
Subject: [CMN-L] Patronymics
>
> Could the List help me on a matter of Patronymics.
>
> I am helping a friend with his family tree. We have traced it back to a
> Thomas Samuel whose birth on 4th July, 1799 is recorded on the Register of
> Llanedi, Newhouse Independent Chapel (in Welsh known as "Ty newydd")
>
> The Register shows the parents as being Samuel Gibbs and Sarah. Their
> other children, Ann Samuel and Griffith Samuel, are also shown on the same
> register.
>
> I am confident from surrounding information that we have the right person,
> but my friend will not accept this. He says that as his surname is Samuel
> it is not possible for him to be descended down the male line from someone
> called "Gibbs". I say that this is what Patronymics is all about. Can the
> List confirm that I am correct and explain how patronymics were still
> operational at the start of C19th in industrial south -east
> Carmarthenshire. (The Register for Newhouse has other examples)
>
> If I am wrong will the List say so, and I will then have to grovel.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
> Database version: 5.11840
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> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List.........
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Hello,
Here are a few websites that support your position!
http://articles.gourt.com/en/patronymichttp://www.data-wales.co.uk/names.htmhttp://www.users.uswest.net/~butchmatt/WelshNames&Surnames.htmhttp://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irishancestors/Surnames...
Mona
--- On Wed, 2/25/09, 10John <10John(a)ewalters.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
From: 10John <10John(a)ewalters.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [CMN-L] Patronymics
To: Carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:11 AM
Could the List help me on a matter of Patronymics.
I am helping a friend with his family tree. We have traced it back to a Thomas
Samuel whose birth on 4th July, 1799 is recorded on the Register of Llanedi,
Newhouse Independent Chapel (in Welsh known as "Ty newydd")
The Register shows the parents as being Samuel Gibbs and Sarah. Their other
children, Ann Samuel and Griffith Samuel, are also shown on the same register.
I am confident from surrounding information that we have the right person, but
my friend will not accept this. He says that as his surname is Samuel it is not
possible for him to be descended down the male line from someone called
"Gibbs". I say that this is what Patronymics is all about. Can the
List confirm that I am correct and explain how patronymics were still
operational at the start of C19th in industrial south -east Carmarthenshire.
(The Register for Newhouse has other examples)
If I am wrong will the List say so, and I will then have to grovel.
John
E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
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Hi Susan and Wendy
You have to remember with the IGI that these are the bishops transcripts and
non-conformist records, and not from the parish register, these records
sometimes do differ......many records were mis-laid or mis-recorded as these
vicars did not write the parish registers at the same time of the event,
some were written on pieces of paper to be added at a later date.....
We did not index from the bishops transcrips as well as the parish
registers, as the B.T's are only available from NLW.
hope this helps
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Owen" <smtowen(a)gmail.com>
To: <carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CMN-L] (PEM) BAPTISM ENQIURY
> Wendy, Another helpful thing might be to Click on the C00000 number
> and put only the last name in the search field. This will show you
> all Christenings at Pembrey during a specific time and you may find
> other family members that way. Susan
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:45 PM, WLawday(a)aol.com wrote:
>
>> Dear Susan,
>>
>> Thank you for this most helpful reply, I will certainly look into
>> it, and
>> hope to find them. It has been quite hard to pin down this family
>> as they were
>> sometimes Methodists, other times not it seems. As several of them
>> appear
>> to have vanished and cannot be found on Censuses, they must have
>> died or gone
>> abroad I suppose!
>>
>> Thanks once more, and best wishes,
>> WENDY
>> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info
>> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com
>> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List.........
>>
>> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available
>>
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>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> CARMARTHENSHIRE-request(a)rootsweb.com
>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
>> the body of the message
>
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>
Hi Pauline, thanks for your reply. In 1861 Daniel Jones was an independent
minister, living in Llanstephan, born Llanstephan. Wife Mary 46 &
dau.Margaret 11 also born Llanstephan.
In 1871 he was aged 58, a farmer of 30 acres, born Carmarthen, Mary was
56, also born Carmarthen There is no Parish name on the 1871 image, just
address of Parkplas
Thanks again
Ann
HI Ann
I have looked in 1851 but cannot pinpoint him.....they are not in
Llanstephan .......what was his occupation in 1861 and 1871........which
parish are they living in at that time.....where did it state they were
born, for any of them will do, to see whre they could have been in the
earlier census
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: <Anndriscoll(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: [CMN-L] 1851 census possibly Llanstephan JONES
> Hi list, please would SKS look on the 1851 census for a family of JONES
> to
> include Daniel, head, aged c 37, occupation unknown, Mary, wife aged
> c36 and
> possibly Henry, son aged c1yr, & Margaret, dau, aged c 21 all born
> Carmarthenshire, They are in Blaen y Cqm in 1861 and in Parkglas in
> 1871.
>
> Any information much appreciated
>
> Many thanks
>
> Ann
> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info
> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com
> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List.........
>
> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available
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and the body of the message
Hi list, please would SKS look on the 1851 census for a family of JONES to
include Daniel, head, aged c 37, occupation unknown, Mary, wife aged c36 and
possibly Henry, son aged c1yr, & Margaret, dau, aged c 21 all born
Carmarthenshire, They are in Blaen y Cqm in 1861 and in Parkglas in 1871.
Any information much appreciated
Many thanks
Ann
Dear Susan,
Thanks so much, this will give me something new to learn! What patience the
people who enter up all these names and dates must have.
Best wishes,
WENDY
Dear Susan,
Thank you for this most helpful reply, I will certainly look into it, and
hope to find them. It has been quite hard to pin down this family as they were
sometimes Methodists, other times not it seems. As several of them appear
to have vanished and cannot be found on Censuses, they must have died or gone
abroad I suppose!
Thanks once more, and best wishes,
WENDY
Wendy, If I can be of any more help, please let me know. I live in
Salt Lake City Utah, USA, but my father was from Llanelli( Llwynhendy,
really) I come over often to trace my roots and see what family still
live there. I feel as though I really am Welsh though I was born in
the States. I have somme persons from Pembrey as well. Regards, Susan
On Feb 23, 2009, at 1:51 PM, WLawday(a)aol.com wrote:
> Dear Susan,
>
> Thanks so much, this will give me something new to learn! What
> patience the
> people who enter up all these names and dates must have.
>
> Best wishes,
> WENDY
> http://www.DyfedFreeGen.info
> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com
> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List.........
>
> Membership Carmarthenshire FHS 2009 now available
>
> carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
> the body of the message
Available later today
ST. ISHMAEL
St Ishmael Parish Baptisms 1740-1855
St Ishmaels Parish Burials 1813-1840
St Ishmaels Marriages 1754-1837
St Ishmael : Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Chapel 1828-1838
1841 Census Digital Images
1851 Census Digital Images
1861 Census Digital Images
1871 Census Digital Images
1881 Census Digital Images
1891 Census Digital Images
1901 Census Digital Images
St Davids Diocese Wills Index 1654-1858
Regards
Richard
http://www.UK-Genealogy-Online.com
Free Genealogy Online
http://www.free-genealogy-online.info
One last enquiry. I have been given the following baptism at St. Mary's
Pembroke from the IGI via another researcher, and would be pleased if someone
could confirm or dispel it.
1st Feb. 1843 - Eleanor Harris Deer. Parents Benjamin and Jane
The earlier baptisms at Pembury [Pembrey?] for John Deer and Elizabeth Harry
were sent to me by the same contact also from the IGI, but these were not
found on the Parish Register,
Many thanks,
WENDY
Hello all,
David Davis, "late of Abergwilli", was convicted of burglary and sentenced
to death in 1818 at Carmarthen. The sentence was commuted and he was
transported to New South Wales the same year.
He settled at Wollombi, near Newcastle, married a widow and raised a family,
acquiring a number of parcels of land which he farmed with some success.
I know how common his name is, but he may have had a middle name of Arthur.
I would be delighted to find someone with a connection as David is my
3xgreat grandfather. As a convict, and therefore Crown property, and as
later a prominent member of his community, there is a lot of information
already about his post 1818 activities. The Welsh period before 1818 is not
so clear, however. Although I was able to spend some time around Carmarthen
and Abergwilli last year, anything about him eluded me completely. Apart
from that, I enjoyed my stay immensely.
Ken Shilling
Newcastle NSW
Llandefeilog
1841 Census Digital Images
1851 Census Digital Images
1861 Census Digital Images
1871 Census Digital Images
1881 Census Digital Images
1891 Census Digital Images
1901 Census Digital Images
Find Under/Wales/Carmarthenshire/Llandefeilog
21/02/2009
Regards
Richard
http://www.UK-Genealogy-Online.com
Free Genealogy Online
http://www.free-genealogy-online.info
This is the lat page I have for now. I will try and find out a bit more
about he Eisteddfods of the time. Frederick A. Deer was born in Llanelli c.
1820 and died at Neath in 1898.
CAMBRIAN 26 APRIL 1867
MEDAL AT THE NATIONAL EISTEDDFOD
In consequence of Mr. F. A. Deer, of Neath, being awarded the only gold
medal for his work of art at the late Chester Eisteddfod and Exhibition in
September 1866, which ws designed by him, he has prepared another design for
inspection, which he has just executed of gold medal for the National Eisteddfod
and Exhibition at Carmarthen in September. The medal is ornamented by five
figures - Wales is represented, seated, one hand resting on the National Harp,
whilst the other she is crowning with a laurel a figure of industry, with
distaff and bee-bespangled robe; the three other figures, representing Literature
and Art, are distinguished by appropriate emblems. The whole design is
intended to convey the idea that Wales is ever ready to reward and honour those
of her children whose exertions and talents are devoted to the advancement,
general improvement, and happiness of mankind. On the obverse thee is a wreath
of oak leaves in a circle, and at the edge are the words, “The National
Eisteddfod of Wales”. Native artists are particularly requested to send works of
art to this Exhibition. There will be prizes given on the occasion in
medals and money to a large extent to encourage the progress of works of art in
Wales.
On the same page there are partial copies of an article about the young Lord
Bute “It has been Lord Bute’s misfortune to be too much before the public ……
..We trust that he will be let alone by those who cater news and gossip for
the public” etc. - (could be talking about our current young princes!)
Also a letter concerning The Farmers of Llangevelach and the Cattle Plaque,
incomplete.
CAMBRIAN 17 NOV. 1854
MARRIED
……… By the Rev. W. Davies, incumbent, Mr. John Argust to Miss Ann James,
both of Mountain Ash.
On the 4th inst., at Llandignat Church, Llandovery, by the Rev. John Hughes,
Thomas Thomas, Esq., of Green Hall, near Llandilo, to Mrs. Margaret Buggy,
Llwyncelin Cottage, Llandovery.
DEATHS
On the 10th inst., aged 74 years, Mr. Stephen Bidder, shoemaker, Swansea.
On the 7th inst., at Bellevue Cottage, Baglan, near Neath, aged 14 months,
Richard Llewellyn, son of Rev. Evan Thomas, incumbent of Briton Ferry.
On the 14th inst., aged 67, Margaret, the wife of Mr. Wm. Rees, Oldcastle,
Bridgend. She was highly respected, and her loss will be greatly felt by a
large family and numerous friends.
On the 11th inst., at Charles-street, Cardiff, Mr. Abraham Williams, and old
inhabitant of Swansea, aged 80.
On the 6th inst., suddenly, Mr. Thomas Lodwick, of the White House Farm,
near Cardiff, aged 56.
On the 11th inst., aged two years and five months, Jennett Terry, youngest
daughter of the late Mr. H. J. Davies, Melingriffith Works, near Cardiff.
On the 7th inst., at Clifton, aged 29, Edwin George, second son of Mr. W. H.
Piggott, of Bristol.
On the 13th inst., aged 70 years, Mrs. Elizabeth Deer, late of Llanelly.
On the 7th inst., much respected, Mr. Edward May, the agent for Newport for
the West India Royal Mail Steam Company.
On the 8th inst., at Abergwili, Edward, the infant son of J. Thirlwall, sq.,
aged three weeks.
On the 9th inst., at the residence of her sister, Mrs. Rees. Bridge-street,
Llandilo, Miss Sarah Peregrine, of Llandilo, aged 48.
On the 3rd inst., at Stone-street, Llandovery, aged 82, Ann, relict of W.
Williams, Esq.
On the 10th inst., suddenly, at St. John’s Mount, Brecon, to the irreparable
loss of her family, and the sincere regret of those who knew her, Julia
Sophia, the wife of David Thomas, Esq.
On the 12th inst., at his residence in town, Charles Kemble, the great
actor, having just completed his 79th year.
On the 30th of September, at Greenwich, in the 90th year of his age, Thomas
Christopher Banks, Baronet of Nova Scotia, and Knight of the Holy Order of St.
John of Jerusalem, law genealogist, and antiquarian.
On the 22nd inst., of cholera, before Sebastopol, Sir Geore Jones Young,
Bart., Lieutenant Royal Artillery, brother of Sir. Wm. Norris Young, Bart., 23rd
Fusiliers, killed at the battle of the Alma, aged 19.
Hi John
I have lots of information on Pembrey Carmarthenshire.....
I cannot see a relevant baptism for an Ann/e Evan/s though not with a child
being born in 1850.....do you know when she was born?
I have these two (there are earlier ones too)
1801 15th Feb Pembrey parish church
Ann Evan dau Joshua and Catherine
1810 1st July Pembrey
Ann Evan dau Isaac and Elizabeth, Village
You say the info is from a published bio....do you have more information?
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: "John C. Hall" <johnh2all(a)earthlink.net>
To: <carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Fw: [JONES] Mary Ann Price
> Sorry for the confusion, but the info I have was taken from a published
> bio
> in 1890. However, she was a member of the Baptist Church in Ohio. Her
> mother, Ann (Evans) Price was born in Pembra (?)
> [Pembrey], Carmarthenshire. That's all the info that I have to go on.
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "UK Genealogy" <ukgenealogy(a)onvol.net>
> To: <carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [CMN-L] Fw: [JONES] Mary Ann Price
>
>
>> Hi John
>>
>> I looked in St Mary's parish church Merthyr Tydvil, but she was not
>> baptised
>> there.......
>>
>> Pauline
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John C. Hall" <johnh2all(a)earthlink.net>
>> To: "carmarthenshire@rootsw" <carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:27 PM
>> Subject: [CMN-L] Fw: [JONES] Mary Ann Price
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John C. Hall" <johnh2all(a)earthlink.net>
>>> To: <Carmarthenshire(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Cc: <JONES(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:59 AM
>>> Subject: [JONES] Mary Ann Price
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Pauline;
>>>>
>>>> I am searching for any info for Mary Ann Price b. 2 Mar 1850 in
>>>> Merthyr-Tydvil, Carmarthenshire. Her parents were Thomas and Ann
>>>> (Evans)
>>>> Price, who emigrated to Morrow County, Ohio in 1852, then lastly to
>>>> Gibsonburg, Wood County, Ohio.
>>>>
>>>> She married James M. Jones in 1870 and had two sons, Elza M. Jones b.
>>>> May
>>>> 1871 and Price A. Jones b. Aug 1878. Mary Ann died on 11 Mar 1917 in
>>>> Gibsonburg.
>>>>
>>>> Any help you can offer in Wales would be deeply appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, John C. Hall, Petaluma, California
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>> JONES-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>> quotes
>>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://www.uk-genealogy-online.com
>>> Welcome to Carmarthenshire Mailing List.........
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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