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Hello Pauline,
I too am looking for JAMES HOWELL, Llanelly.
My Howell info:
James Howell b: about 1786, died in Narberth 1844.
married Jail? Jail b: 1775, died Llanelly 1858.
1841 their residence was Trebach, Llanboidy
Children: Hannah 1800, Thomas 1816, and Mary 1823.
Any info truly appreciated.
Shawn
>From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] James Howell, Llanelly
>Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:41:05 +0100
>
>Hi Dai
>
>There are only 5 James Howell/s in Llanelly 1851, 2 adults and 3
>children.....how old is the James you require.....?
>
>I cannot remember what you past e-mail was about....
>
>Thanks .....Pauline
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dai HOWELLS" <dai(a)howells9248.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: 29 August 2002 22:10
>Subject: [Cmn-L] James Howell, Llanelly
>
>
> > Hi Pauline
> > Some time ago, you kindly sent a posting advising me that you had James
>in
>the 1851 census. I didn't take advantage at the time and wonder if you
>would
>do a look up for me?
> >
> > Thanks a lot
> >
> > Dai
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Carmarthenshire FHS can be contacted by telephone: 01554-784875
> > Only general enquiries please, No research or lookups carried out on the
>telephone.
> >
>
>
>
>
>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
>find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
>Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
>From experience you may not get it!
Cheryl,
I have used Amazon for other "rare" books, they said yes 4-5 weeks, but
were then unable to supply. However sometimes YES! they find it!. Hope you
get it. I have searched so many times for my daughter, she is doing history
AS/A level here, for recommended books from her teacher which were out of
print, even found some in Canada! (and I am in Llanelli).
Hopefully NEXT WEEK!!! Yep Back to SCHOOL!!!!! I can get some time for my
research again....there has just been so much going on, time has been
against me.
Pauline be warned :) will be pestering you for Thomas's soon.
Hope everyone survived the school break,
Theresa in not so sunny Llanelli
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cdlewallen(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Christopher Saxton's maps
>
>
> > Amazon have it for £20 but there is a delay with it. Check the link
below
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0951796208/
> >
>
> Thanks Theresa!
>
> This is very helpful. I suppose I didn't even think of Amazon.co.uk, that
> would have been too easy <G>
>
> Cheryl
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on your
> PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be Unsubscribed
from this mailing list
>
>
> Hopefully NEXT WEEK!!! Yep Back to SCHOOL!!!!! I can get some time for my
> research again....there has just been so much going on, time has been
> against me.
>
Theresa,
Thanks. I know what you mean about Amazon. I looked there and they said out
of print so I went to one of the on-line oop bookstores that I use. It's
abebooks.com. I have had much luck with them since they are the google of the
used book world. They search everyone. I found one of Christopher Saxton's
books but it was nearly fifty dollars American. I just can't bring myself to
spend that kind of money right now *sigh*. Maybe later.
I think I need to fess up as to why I am on this loop. I am a fiction writer
and am writing a book that takes place in southern Wales, mostly near
Tregaron in Cardiganshire. Is anyone on this loop from that area? I would
love to pick your brains. I have been to Wales a few times and wish I could
make it an annual pilgrimage. You can e-mail be privately.
Cheryl--who wishes more than anything in the world that she was in
not-so-sunny Wales right now <G>.
Hi Pauline
Some time ago, you kindly sent a posting advising me that you had James in the 1851 census. I didn't take advantage at the time and wonder if you would do a look up for me?
Thanks a lot
Dai
Hi Cheryl,
Amazon have it for £20 but there is a delay with it. Check the link below
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0951796208/
Theresa
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cdlewallen(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Christopher Saxton's maps
>
>
> > In 'A Story of Carmarthen' by Joyce and Victor Lodwick....ISBN
0-9517962-0-8
> >
> > is a copy of this map....
>
> Thanks Pauline.
>
> Do you think a local bookstore in southern Wales might still be carrying
one?
> Any suggestions as to what stores?
>
> Cheryl Lewallen
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
Hi Darla
I am not sure which port each one would have use to embark to
America.....someone else on these lists are bound to know......especially
the ones who have researched families moving there.....
this is the information you needed from the 1851 census
enu dist 2A reg dist Conwil 4 HO107/2474
sch 45 page 11
Glanavon Newchurch parish
Benjamin Jones head marr 61 ag lab born Abernant
Rachel Jones wife marr 65 born Trelech
no others at home with them....
Carmarthen St Peters enu dist 2L sch 270 pg 20
85 Kidwelly Fach
Benjamin Jones hd marr 58 shoemaker born Carmarthen
Margaret Jones wife marr 62
Mary dau 20 charwoman
Charles son 22 shoemaker
Thomas son 20 appren painter
all born Carmarthen .......
In all the were 75 Benjamin Jones in my databases for 1851 but only the 2 in
Newchurch - only only a child plus the one above....
There are digital images available for sale of ALL Carmarthenshire for 1841,
1851, and 1901......which are all available.......I have only part indexed
1851 so far.....still ongoing.. 1871 is available for Carmarthen St Peters,
this is the project in hand at present.....I can only do look-ups as you can
imagine from 1851 though.....
I hope this helps.......what is the weather like in Texas??
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: <DBell7246(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 29 August 2002 15:25
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] More about JONES
> Good morning (here, anyway)!
>
> Thanks so much for giving some thought to my research. I think it's
helped
> me just to write it all down on one piece of paper! I'll mull over
> everything and continue to think.
>
> The occupation of Benjamin Jones, the father on the marriage certificate,
was
> "iron weigher."
>
> I have access to an LDS stake library, but it's not close and the hours
> aren't very convenient. However, yes, it's an option for me and I'll make
a
> trip there if needed, and I could obtain the St. Peter's film.
>
> When you wrote:
> "The only Ben Jones in 1851 Newchurch census was the one who married
> Rachel......there is one in Carmarthen St Peters who married a Margaret -
> this is probably the other Benjamin Jones from the St Peters
> marriages..."
>
> Do you mean that there's a Benjamin Jones in the 1851 census for
Carmarthen
> St. Peter's? Would it be possible to obtain the 1851 census data from you
> for Benjamin in Newchurch and the Benjamin in Carmarthen?
>
> Do you know the most likely port of embarkation for Welsh families leaving
> for America in the mid-1850's?
>
> I sympathize with your frustration regarding your Jones family. I won't
give
> up yet, though. As you said, I'm lucky to have discovered this much!
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Darla
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
Hi Darla
Llanewidd is the welsh spelling for Newchurch....
Llan - church
newidd/newydd - new
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: <DBell7246(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 29 August 2002 15:28
Subject: [Cmn-L] One quick additional question
> Pauline, when you listed the various birthplaces of Hannah Jones, you
wrote
> that one of them was "Llannewidd (Newchurch)." Does that mean that
> Llannewidd is another name for, part of, of extremely close to Newchurch?
> That is, if I'm looking at records and Llannewidd is mentioned, can I take
> that to be about equivalent to Newchurch? Thanks again!
>
> Darla
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
> Amazon have it for £20 but there is a delay with it. Check the link below
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0951796208/
>
Thanks Theresa!
This is very helpful. I suppose I didn't even think of Amazon.co.uk, that
would have been too easy <G>
Cheryl
> In 'A Story of Carmarthen' by Joyce and Victor Lodwick....ISBN 0-9517962-0-8
>
> is a copy of this map....
Thanks Pauline.
Do you think a local bookstore in southern Wales might still be carrying one?
Any suggestions as to what stores?
Cheryl Lewallen
Hi, Pauline,
Thanks very much for the additional information. I'll consider the purchase
of the whole CMN census for 1841 anyway (for now). I can obtain the
information on the CMN FHS website.
Weather - much as expected for late August. High temperatures in the low
90's F. during the day with lows of 70's F. at night. We've had a
thunderstorm nearly every afternoon for a few weeks but today no rain is
expected (hooray!). More storms are expected Saturday. It's very hot and
humid here, and we run from our air conditioned offices to our air
conditioned cars to our air conditioned homes. It's so humid here overall
that, although I grew up with straight hair in Kentucky, my hair has been
permanently curly since we moved here 12 years ago. (I guess that's good.)
Right now we're being kept indoors not only by the heat but by mosquitos
which are carrying the West Nile virus this year and a number of people have
died as the result of being bitten. That means that I don't have to pull the
weeds in the yard in the mornings or evenings (hooray again!) -- and it's too
hot to garden at mid-day.
Talk to me about weather closer to the end of the year when most of the world
is experiencing bad winter weather and we're basking in moderate sunshine
here! Then I won't complain.
Darla
Here's another shout for help please - in case you missed my first message :)
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: philvn
To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: Llangendeirne Census
If anyone has access to 1871 and 1891 could they find me an entry for the following family please?
[I have found them there in 1881]
At Green Hall, Llangendeirne
family of PHILIP ARTHUR VAUGHAN, wife Helen + children
Many thanks
Phil [in Berkshire]
Hi Darla
What was the occupation of Benjamin Jones that father on the birth
certificate......
The only Ben Jones in 1851 Newchurch census was the one who married
Rachel......there is one in Carmarthen St Peters who married a Margaret -
this is probably the other Benjamin Jones from the St Peters
marriages....therefore the ones you have located are probably the ones you
are looking for (hopefully).
I must tell you now - that I gave up looking for my Jones because I have a
Hannah Jones born c1827 which changed each census......as did her place of
birth, from 1851 St Peters, 1861 Newchurch, 1871 Llanpumpsaint,, 1881
Llannewidd (Newchurch)......the only place I could find a match with a
father's name David Jones was in Llanpumpsaint......so as you can imagine
this family tree stops at Hannah Jones 1827ish daughter of David
Jones.....servant or labourer....she herself was in service at the time of
her marriage - therefore no family address.....
Back to your questions, as you can see from mine above, any place of birth
can be given - and is incorrect.....ages are rarely correct......
Baptisms normally took place soon after birth, but if the mother or child
was too poorly to be baptised straight away, they would have waited..four
months is not a long time to wait to be baptised......not to put you off,
but I found one once aged 82 years being baptised......bet the person
researching this one gave up long before that time....so rules circumstances
do differ.....
Have you viewed the film for Carmarthen St Peter, sometimes the vicar added
an age to a baptism....
I have viewed the census and it does seem that these do fit......Dowlais for
1841 I believe is missing? so perhaps the 1841 is not correct.....
It does not help that Thomas Jones moved around so much - you have so well
to find out what you have....it's just putting all the pieces together....
Do you think you would be able to order the Newchurch earlier records from
an LDS where you are.....
You could send an e-mail to the archives CRO and ask them how far back their
records go, they would do a quick look for you via e-mail......it's worth a
try...
sorry I cannot help much but records are needed to verify the information -
its a case of elimination....
regards Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: <DBell7246(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 28 August 2002 23:45
Subject: [Cmn-L] More about JONES
> Hi, Pauline,
>
> I'm going to ask a favor of you. I have a problem in tracing my gg
> grandfather, Thomas Jones (as you know). When you have time (no rush),
will
> you consider what I've found and offer me your opinion? There's a
conflict
> regarding his birthplace and I'd like a second opinion and would value
yours.
> I realize that this is asking a lot from you and I'll understand if you
> refuse. I'd just like to know if you would come to the same conclusions
that
> I'm drawing from my data.
> 1) According to a handwritten piece of paper passed down in the family, my
gg
> grandfather's name was Thomas Benjamin Jones and he was born on June 11,
1821
> in Wales.
> 2) The same paper lists his wife, children, and date and place of
marriage.
> It also notes that his father's name was Benjamin.
> 3) I've obtained his 1842 (MON) marriage record and was able to place him
> definitely at the time of the 1851 census in Maesteg, GLA (wife and
children
> are all named correctly). The family moved to the US prior to the 1861
> census.
> 4) The 1851 GLA census notes his birthplace as Llandyfriog, CARD.
> 5) Thomas' wife was Ann Morgan. I've been able to identify her parents as
> Jane and David Morgan and traced them back to their marriage in St.
Peter's
> CMN in 1809.
> 6) David Morgan died in 1837. I've been able to locate Jane and her
children
> in 1841, 1851 and 1861. (NOW THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM APPEARS.) In 1861
> she's living with her brother Lewis and family in GLA. A member of the
> household is named BENJAMIN JONES, 63, BORN CMN NEWCHURCH.
> 7) I'm thinking that this Benjamin Jones MUST be the father of Jane's
> daughter's husband Thomas Jones. The coincidence of the names is just too
> much to ignore. Their children have gone off to America and both
apparently
> are widowed.
> 8) I've found who I think is the same Benjamin Jones in 1841 in Aberavon
GLA
> and in 1851 in Dowlais GLA.
> 9) The names/ages of his children and wife tie him back to the Benjamin
Jones
> who married Margaret Hughes in Abergwilli in 1815. You found their
children
> Margaret and Mary christened at Newchurch. I found others listed on the
> 1841 census christened at St. Peter's CMN. I ALSO found a Thomas
christened
> on Oct. 14, 1821 at St. Peter's, son of Benjamin and Margaret.
> 10) Question 1: If a child was born in June, would it be likely to have
the
> christening in October of that year?
> 11) Could the 1851 census be THAT wrong to list Thomas Jones' birthplace
as
> Llandyfriog, CARD if he was born in CMN?
> 12) Is there any other good source of Thomas' birthplace? I found what
may
> be a listing for him in Bedwellty in 1841 (his 1842 marriage record lists
his
> residence as Victoria, Parish of Bedwellty) - but all it says for the
> birthplace is "not in county."
>
> All US information only gives Wales as the birthplace of these people -
> unless there's something in immigration records, passenger lists, etc.,
that
> I haven't found yet. I'll say no more.
>
> Darla
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information
> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
>
Darla, "New Church" is the translation of Llan (church) newYdd (new).
As as to having time to do family research when you retire? As they say in
Texas "Fer-git-it".
I retired a hundred years ago and I don't have time to do anything.
Most retirees suffer from CHRONOSPOROSIS which menas that their days shrink
down to only 2.4 hours instead of the former 24.
Joe Gregory
Too busy to "spell check".
Mt. Top, Pa.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DBell7246(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: [Cmn-L] One quick additional question
> Pauline, when you listed the various birthplaces of Hannah Jones, you
wrote
> that one of them was "Llannewidd (Newchurch)." Does that mean that
> Llannewidd is another name for, part of, of extremely close to Newchurch?
> That is, if I'm looking at records and Llannewidd is mentioned, can I take
> that to be about equivalent to Newchurch? Thanks again!
>
> Darla
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
Pauline, when you listed the various birthplaces of Hannah Jones, you wrote
that one of them was "Llannewidd (Newchurch)." Does that mean that
Llannewidd is another name for, part of, of extremely close to Newchurch?
That is, if I'm looking at records and Llannewidd is mentioned, can I take
that to be about equivalent to Newchurch? Thanks again!
Darla
Good morning (here, anyway)!
Thanks so much for giving some thought to my research. I think it's helped
me just to write it all down on one piece of paper! I'll mull over
everything and continue to think.
The occupation of Benjamin Jones, the father on the marriage certificate, was
"iron weigher."
I have access to an LDS stake library, but it's not close and the hours
aren't very convenient. However, yes, it's an option for me and I'll make a
trip there if needed, and I could obtain the St. Peter's film.
When you wrote:
"The only Ben Jones in 1851 Newchurch census was the one who married
Rachel......there is one in Carmarthen St Peters who married a Margaret -
this is probably the other Benjamin Jones from the St Peters
marriages..."
Do you mean that there's a Benjamin Jones in the 1851 census for Carmarthen
St. Peter's? Would it be possible to obtain the 1851 census data from you
for Benjamin in Newchurch and the Benjamin in Carmarthen?
Do you know the most likely port of embarkation for Welsh families leaving
for America in the mid-1850's?
I sympathize with your frustration regarding your Jones family. I won't give
up yet, though. As you said, I'm lucky to have discovered this much!
Thanks for all your help!
Darla
Hello there,
I have been lurking on the list for a while, since I am not at that point of
tracing my ancestors back to Wales (still mulling about in US records). But I
was wondering if anyone is aware of Christoper Saxton and the map he drew of
Carmarthenshire/Cardiganshire in the 1570s. I was told that I could get
copies of these maps at a local bookstore. Can anyone recommend some local
Welsh stores that I might e-mail?
Cheryl
Cheryl Lewallen
A WINDSWEPT BRIDE
GOLDEN HEART FINALIST 2002
Winner-Duel on the Delta
www. CherylLewallen.com
1854 Murder at Gellyddufach, Llanddarog (Porthyrhyd)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Jones aged 27, was committed for trial for the wilful murder of his
wife Hannah.
The trial took place on the 12th & 13th March 1855, at the Court of Assize,
Carmarthen, before Sir C. Compton. His occupation was recorded as farmer &
horse trader.
He was charged that after returning home late, from Carmarthen, he had
accused his wife of associating with another man, and kicked and punched her
to death, in front of his children.
There was a full page devoted to the trial, in the Carmarthen Journal dated
March 16th 1855.
As was the case in many trials in Wales, at the time, the jury only found
him guilty of manslaughter.
In his summing up, the Judge stated, "that had the jury found the convict
guilty of murder (as Charged), he would have passed upon him the sentence of
death without giving him the least hope that his life would be spared." He
was sentenced to be transported for life.
The Felons register kept at the Jail. Carmarthen, records that he was
discharged on April 17th, 1858, and transported to Millbank Penitentiary,
London, prior to transportation.
There was generally a reluctance on the part of a Welsh Jury to bring a
guilty verdict, Maybe it was in their Celtic nature to detest capital
punishment. At that time, even minor offences could command capital
punishment. Since it was difficult to obtain guilty verdicts, attempts were
made to take some cases outside Wales. Perhaps Welsh people had been
influenced by the Laws of Hywel Dda.
The principle of his Laws was that the wrong doer should make recommence to
the injured party
Regards
Richard James
Wales Genealogy
Carmarthenshire-L
I don't know about the Golden Grove Vaughans but I have a Vaughan family tree - where might your Dynant Fawr folks fit in?
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: hywel.thomas1
To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:47 PM
Subject: [Cmn-L] Vaughans of Golden Grove
I 've been told that a book about the Vaughans written by Alun Williams might help me find out more about my ancestors (John and Mary Thomas of Dynant Fawr Farm ), for there might be a family link on my paternal grandmother's
side of the family.
Where would I find a copy of Alun Williams' book please?
Pob Hywl!
Hywel
==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & Information
http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
"The Vaughans of Golden Grove" was printed privately by the author, Alun
Williams. You could try contacting him at his work address:
Ysgol y Gwendraeth
Drefach
Llanelli
Carms
SA14 7AB
He organises regular reunions of his branch of the Vaughan family - you may
find that you're related!
Anne
1901 Census Online
Update: 27/08/02
The 1901 Online Service closed at 17.00 hours on Friday 23 August and is
currently unavailable.
Thank you to all of you who have used the online service at the Family
Records Centre and PRO, Kew in the past three weeks and have given us
valuable feedback.
Following the closure of the service we will now be evaluating the results
of this phase of the testing before deciding whether the service is
sufficiently robust to move to the next phase of public testing. We hope to
make this decision before the end of August.
Regards
Richard James
Wales Genealogy
Carmarthenshire-L