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Hi Pauline,
If it's possible,could you try and find a John Protheroe in
the Llanelly 1841 census, he'd be 13yrs of age.
He's shown in the 1851 census as age 23yrs and living at 7
Forge Row,Llanelly.
Thanks again
Barrie
#2032
Hi Pauline,
When you get the chance,could you send details of the
marriage between, Joseph Lloyd and Ann Davis at Llangendeirne 7th April
1837. I'm intereted in the witnesses to the wedding.
Thanks
Barrie
#2032
Dear Graham
I see you are researching Mary Skym. It might just be a coincidence but one
of my ancestors Ann Skym born app 1799 in Llanarthney/Llanddarog married a
Henry Lewis in Llanarthney. I think her father was David Skym.I also found a
Joannah Skym marriage to Lewis Lewis. Her father was also David.
My Ann , Joannah, the David that Pauline found and your Mary might all be
brothers and sisters.It doesn't help much I know but it is a start.
Regards
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "bun05089593" <g.s.powell(a)bun.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 6:38 AM
Subject: [Cmn-L] Re; Mary Skym Llanddarog
> Hi Pauline
>
> Looking for birth/baptism of Mary Skym, my g.g.g.grandmother, at
Llanddarog about
> 1800. She married Edward Evan(s) at Llannon in 1825 and afterwards lived
at Fancy
> Cottage on Capel Ivan farm. Any help would be appreciated.
> Regards
> Graham
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
>
Dear Richard,
Many thanks for your e-mail. I'm getting quite excited about this. It would
be wonderful if we had found some of my relatives. My grandfather, Stanley,
lived at 20 Orchard Street, Carmarthen. He was in the Royal Flying Corps and
died aged 25 on 3 November 1918, leaving a wife Esther Ann and two daughters
Amy and Violet (my mother).
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richards" <carmarthenshirefhs(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> HI Sheila
>
> Burry Port is a village inbetween Llanelli and Pembrey on the south coast
of
> Carmarthenshire - Carmarthen Bay is the estuary to pinpoint it easier on a
> map.
>
> Where were your Short family from. I know that both the parents are now
> deceased, but I do see a daughter quite often, just to pass the time of
> day.......All of the children (If I can remember about 5 with one set of
> twins) and both parents were short.
>
> If you want more information let me know ......
>
> speak soon Pauline
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: 24 February 2002 16:24
> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
>
>
> > Dear Pauline,
> > No, you hadn't told me about this Short family. Where about is Burry
Port?
> > My mother wasn't a particularly short Short being five foot five, but
her
> > mother was only four foot ten. It would be lovely if this is part of my
> > family as I have no contact with any relative on my mother's side.
> > Sheila
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> >
> >
> > > Hi Sheila
> > >
> > > I don't know if I told you this in the past, but in Burry Port is a
> family
> > > named Short, and they were short by name and short by nature......
> > >
> > > Pauline
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > Sent: 24 February 2002 00:58
> > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello Pauline,
> > > > Many thanks for your offer. I have looked in the 1881 Census but the
> > only
> > > > Morgan Short there was married to a Harriet. I realise that Caroline
> > could
> > > > be a second marriage but I wish that I could link the two up, then I
> > would
> > > > know that he is my great grandfather.
> > > > Sheila
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:47 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Sheila
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry but I do not have any information on Bedwellty , only
> marriages
> > > > > 1813-37.......have you looked at the 1881 census, if not come back
> and
> > > > we'll
> > > > > see if he can be found here......
> > > > >
> > > > > regards Pauline
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> > > > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > > > Sent: 22 February 2002 19:34
> > > > > Subject: [Cmn-L] Short family
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > > Sorry to have to ask again but have you had any luck with my
> Morgan
> > > > SHORT
> > > > > (coal miner), married to Caroline - formerly GOODWIN. They lived
at
> > > > > Cwmtillery Road, near Penybout in the registration district of
> > Bedwellty
> > > > in
> > > > > 1894 and had a son called Stanley (my grandfather) born 12 January
> > 1894.
> > > > > This is the only information that I have. It is taken from my
> > > > grandfather's
> > > > > birth certificate.
> > > > > > Many thanks.
> > > > > > Sheila
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc
you
> > > cannot
> > > > > find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name
of
> > the
> > > > > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > > WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> > > > > THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> > > > > http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and
research
> > > questions & Quiries.
> > > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you
cannot
> > find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> > THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> > http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
> >
> >
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
This sounds just like the one that I received that my Norton picked up.
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: <AnnaDinahThomas(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Re Llwyn Jack, Llangadock
> I received a email from linda.morris6(a)ntlworld.com. This came with no
> covering words and a download. The email address doesn't work. I have
> deleted this in case it contained a virus.
>
> Anna
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research
questions & Quiries.
> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
>
HI Sheila
Burry Port is a village inbetween Llanelli and Pembrey on the south coast of
Carmarthenshire - Carmarthen Bay is the estuary to pinpoint it easier on a
map.
Where were your Short family from. I know that both the parents are now
deceased, but I do see a daughter quite often, just to pass the time of
day.......All of the children (If I can remember about 5 with one set of
twins) and both parents were short.
If you want more information let me know ......
speak soon Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 24 February 2002 16:24
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> Dear Pauline,
> No, you hadn't told me about this Short family. Where about is Burry Port?
> My mother wasn't a particularly short Short being five foot five, but her
> mother was only four foot ten. It would be lovely if this is part of my
> family as I have no contact with any relative on my mother's side.
> Sheila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
>
>
> > Hi Sheila
> >
> > I don't know if I told you this in the past, but in Burry Port is a
family
> > named Short, and they were short by name and short by nature......
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: 24 February 2002 00:58
> > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> >
> >
> > > Hello Pauline,
> > > Many thanks for your offer. I have looked in the 1881 Census but the
> only
> > > Morgan Short there was married to a Harriet. I realise that Caroline
> could
> > > be a second marriage but I wish that I could link the two up, then I
> would
> > > know that he is my great grandfather.
> > > Sheila
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:47 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Sheila
> > > >
> > > > Sorry but I do not have any information on Bedwellty , only
marriages
> > > > 1813-37.......have you looked at the 1881 census, if not come back
and
> > > we'll
> > > > see if he can be found here......
> > > >
> > > > regards Pauline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> > > > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > > Sent: 22 February 2002 19:34
> > > > Subject: [Cmn-L] Short family
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > Sorry to have to ask again but have you had any luck with my
Morgan
> > > SHORT
> > > > (coal miner), married to Caroline - formerly GOODWIN. They lived at
> > > > Cwmtillery Road, near Penybout in the registration district of
> Bedwellty
> > > in
> > > > 1894 and had a son called Stanley (my grandfather) born 12 January
> 1894.
> > > > This is the only information that I have. It is taken from my
> > > grandfather's
> > > > birth certificate.
> > > > > Many thanks.
> > > > > Sheila
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you
> > cannot
> > > > find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of
> the
> > > > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> > > > THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> > > > http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research
> > questions & Quiries.
> > > http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
> find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> >
>
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
>
>
I received a email from linda.morris6(a)ntlworld.com. This came with no
covering words and a download. The email address doesn't work. I have
deleted this in case it contained a virus.
Anna
Hi Sheila
I don't know if I told you this in the past, but in Burry Port is a family
named Short, and they were short by name and short by nature......
Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 24 February 2002 00:58
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> Hello Pauline,
> Many thanks for your offer. I have looked in the 1881 Census but the only
> Morgan Short there was married to a Harriet. I realise that Caroline could
> be a second marriage but I wish that I could link the two up, then I would
> know that he is my great grandfather.
> Sheila
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
>
>
> > Hi Sheila
> >
> > Sorry but I do not have any information on Bedwellty , only marriages
> > 1813-37.......have you looked at the 1881 census, if not come back and
> we'll
> > see if he can be found here......
> >
> > regards Pauline
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: 22 February 2002 19:34
> > Subject: [Cmn-L] Short family
> >
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > > Sorry to have to ask again but have you had any luck with my Morgan
> SHORT
> > (coal miner), married to Caroline - formerly GOODWIN. They lived at
> > Cwmtillery Road, near Penybout in the registration district of Bedwellty
> in
> > 1894 and had a son called Stanley (my grandfather) born 12 January 1894.
> > This is the only information that I have. It is taken from my
> grandfather's
> > birth certificate.
> > > Many thanks.
> > > Sheila
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you
cannot
> > find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> > THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> > http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research
questions & Quiries.
> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
>
>
Hi
I have just added some of my own interests onto the marriage database, if
anyone wants to add their own marriage certificates that they have go to the
web pages on
http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
to enable yourself to add to these databases you have to sign in, which in
turn sends an e-mail to yourself giving you the database number to add
to.....
If you have any problems just send me an email and we'll talk you through
the process
Hope some of you do add to this database which can help lots of others if
they are researching the same family trees......mine are Davies Jones and
Thomas......plus Harvey and Harwood (easier ones to locate)
thank you for your assistance
regards Pauline
Dear John,
Many thanks for your reply. I don't think that any of my direct family on
the Coppins side come from Wales. My father was born in Wynchmore Hill,
Edmonton. I am stuck on his side of my family as well as I cannot find any
trace of his being there. Short was my mother's maiden name.
Thank you anyway.
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: "john lewis" <johnlewis100(a)hotmail.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> Hello There,
> If it is of any use there was a family of Coppins living in Penclawdd,
North
> Gower, in the 1950' and probably after. It is an unusual surname so there
> may be a connection.
> Regards,
> John Lewis.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "s.coppins" <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >Subject: [Cmn-L] Short family
> >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:34:33 -0800
> >
> >Dear All,
> >Sorry to have to ask again but have you had any luck with my Morgan SHORT
> >(coal miner), married to Caroline - formerly GOODWIN. They lived at
> >Cwmtillery Road, near Penybout in the registration district of Bedwellty
in
> >1894 and had a son called Stanley (my grandfather) born 12 January 1894.
> >This is the only information that I have. It is taken from my
grandfather's
> >birth certificate.
> >Many thanks.
> >Sheila
> >
> >
> >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
> >find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> >Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
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> PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be Unsubscribed
from this mailing list
>
Hello Pauline,
Many thanks for your offer. I have looked in the 1881 Census but the only
Morgan Short there was married to a Harriet. I realise that Caroline could
be a second marriage but I wish that I could link the two up, then I would
know that he is my great grandfather.
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Short family
> Hi Sheila
>
> Sorry but I do not have any information on Bedwellty , only marriages
> 1813-37.......have you looked at the 1881 census, if not come back and
we'll
> see if he can be found here......
>
> regards Pauline
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: s.coppins <s.coppins(a)btinternet.com>
> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: 22 February 2002 19:34
> Subject: [Cmn-L] Short family
>
>
> > Dear All,
> > Sorry to have to ask again but have you had any luck with my Morgan
SHORT
> (coal miner), married to Caroline - formerly GOODWIN. They lived at
> Cwmtillery Road, near Penybout in the registration district of Bedwellty
in
> 1894 and had a son called Stanley (my grandfather) born 12 January 1894.
> This is the only information that I have. It is taken from my
grandfather's
> birth certificate.
> > Many thanks.
> > Sheila
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
> find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> >
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
>
>
Hi
Researching anyone who is connected to the Dwnn family of Carmarthen &
Pembrokeshire (Also spelt Don, Donne, Dunn).
Also looking to find anyone who may have a connection to the following
people in the Prescilly Mountains area of Pembrokeshire/Carmarthenshire.
A John Thomas ca 1840 who was born in Clydey Pembrokeshire. He married (in
Bridgend Glamorgan 1873)Elizabeth Davies ca 1843 born Llan_____ (cant read
the census entry) Carmarthenshire. Elizabeth had an illegetimate son Thomas
Davies ca 1871 and family tradition says he came from the village of Star,
Pembroke. Thomas Davies never lived with his mother and was likely brought
up by another relative.
In the 1881 census there is a Thomas Davies serv at Star Mill, Clydey,
Pembroke age 11 and born Cilrhedin, Carmarthen who could be him. The head of
household at Star Mill is Llewellyn Thomas ca 1834 born Talog, Carmarthen
who might have a possible family connection.
Best wishes
Christopher
Wales
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
The quarter sessions and assize records, supplemented by newspapers, reveal
that there were at least 26 murders in Carmarthenshire in the 34 years from
1884 to 1918. Of these, three were changed to charges of manslaughter.
There were also several cases of attempted murder. Throughout this period,
public opinion towards murder was relatively unanimous in its condemnation.
In 1881, although the courts found them not guilty of both the murder and
manslaughter of John Thomas, an eleven year old boy, local people hounded
Jane Maizey and her two sons David and Benjamin out of Kidwelly. They were
in the view of the local people undoubtedly guilty. Outraged by the
circumstances of John Thomas' death, contemporaries were at pains to show
that the Maizeys were not of their 'stock' but immigrants to the village.
Twenty years earlier, the citizens of Laugharne had shown similar hostility
towards Betsi Gibbs. Though acquitted of two murders, local inhabitants
burnt effigies of her nightly and forced her to flee the town in fear of her
life. Sentenced to death in 1871 for the brutal murder of his wife, William
Brice of Llanelli was followed on his way to gaol by a very large crowd
several of whom expressed a readiness to lynch him.
Probably the clearest example of community hostility to a murderer was the
treatment meted out to William Tremble's body by the inhabitants of Caeo in
1879. Having been refused the licence of the Dolau Cothi Arms in Pumsaint
by Judge Sir John Johnes of Dolau Cothi, Tremble returned with a shotgun and
shot the judge, his daughter Charlotte, the cook, Mrs Cookman, and finally
turned the gun on the owner's dogs. Encircled by police at his cottage
Tremble shot himself. In accordance with the coroner's warrant, Tremble's
body was buried in Caeo churchyard in silence at about 11 o'clock at night.
Sir John Johnes had also been buried in the churchyard and there was
widespread concern that his murderer had been interred in the same
consecrated ground. Later that night, the local inhabitants dug up
Tremble's body and took it to Llandulas churchyard in Breconshire. When the
inhabitants of Llansdulas discovered this, they carried the body back to
Caeo and unceremoniously dumped it back in Caeo churchyard.
*********
Pauline James
Carmarthenshire FHS
http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
The fact if we examine the illigitimacy rates of Carmarthenshire parishes
and registration districts. Llanelli was the most heavily industrialized
parish in the county. In the decennial periods of 1885-94 and 1895-1904,
the illegitimacy rates for Llanelli averaged at 3.37 and 2.91 per 1,000
births respectively. In the same periods the rates for Llanon which was
predominantly a mining parish, were 3.50 and 3.21. Llandeilo Fawr contained
substantial mining, quarrying and agricultural sections, and this duality is
reflected in average rates of 5.36 in the period 1884-94 and 3.87 in
1895-1904. Those registration districts which were purely agricultural had
higher illegitimacy ratios. Llanddeusant had a rate of 8.13 in 1885-94,
7.53 in 1895-1904 and 7.15 in 1905-09; Tallyllychau had rates of 7.61 in
1885-94 and 5.48 in 1894-1904, whilst Cynwyl Gaeo had rates of 10.12 in
1885-94, 8.60 in 1894-1904 and 6.68 in 1905-09. It is clear from thees
statistics that the rates of illigitimacy were declining over this period
1885-1914. But if we pick out individual districts in particular years we
find that the rural/urban disparities become greater. In 1885 for example,
the illegitimacy rate of Llanddeusant stood at 25.00, while that of Llanelli
was 3.38. Clearly each village had its idiosyncrasies, and often its own
code of morality.
Hi Tom
Its me again. I now have the Census records for 1881 and 1891 thanks to
Pauline James and Caroline Jenkins who is from Carmarthenshire Archives. Pat
was going to send me down information she has found on Llwynjack. Caroline
Jenkins has also given me indications of what records they have on Llwynjack.
I will follow this up when I can afford a lookup. I do know that in 1895
the farm was leased to a John James and that he passed the lease on in 1901.
I haven't got the exact information to hand but will certainly contact you
when I have.
Anna
Hello Pauline,
Yes in 1841 it did say Rachel Lewis. Rachel Lewis did marry a David Thomas
and they are both buried in Bethel Methodist Chapel Graveyard, Llansawel.
She died 17.10.1870 aged 62 and he on 26.2.1873, aged 63 years. In a book
named 'Hanes Methodistiaith yn Sir Gaerfyrddin,' 1911, by James Morris some
members of Bethel are mentioned, and among them is David Thomas as a Deacon.
It semed he arrived in Llansawel from Nantyglo (Monmouthsire I presume.)
He then met and married Rachel and farmed Pantiauau, which is often written
as Pantyioye. It seems they had one child who became a Mrs. Davies of
Pentrecwm, Llandeilo. It seems to me that Pantiauau, Pantyioye and Pantyail
is the same place.
Regards,
John.
>From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
>Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:11:01 -0000
>
>Hi John
>
>I have located the 1851 census for Llansawel
>
>HO107/2471 Llansawel hamlet Glyn, enu 1ca, sch 28 pag 9
>Pantyail
>Anne Lewis head wid 76 farmer 120 acre born Llanybyther
>David Thomas son/law 42 Farmer born Llansawel
>Rachel Thomas dau marr 43 born Llansawel
>Rachel Thomas gdau 19 farmer dau born Llansawel
>Evan Lewis servant 21 ag serv born Llanybyther
>Evan Williams servant 16 born Llanybyther
>
>We know you have a Rachel aged 32 in 1841 did it state she was Rachel Lewis
>or Thomas.......Pantiauau is spelt Pantyail in this census - is this the
>same one??
>
>speak soon Pauline
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Pauline James <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
>To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: 22 February 2002 20:33
>Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
>
>
> > Hi John
> >
> > The 1841 census does not give place of birth - only if from County yes
>or
> > no......also no relationship to head is given or if married, widow or
> > single....is Anne Lewis still around in 1851 census??
> >
> > regards Pauline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: john lewis <johnlewis100(a)hotmail.com>
> > To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: 22 February 2002 20:02
> > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> >
> >
> > > Hello Pauline,
> > > Thanks again. It is the 1841 Census for Pantiauau that tells me that
> > Thomas
> > > Jones was from Llanegwad. The death of Lewis Lewis of Pantiauau is
> > recorded
> > > on a tombstone in Abergorlech Churchyard. He is said to have died on
> > > 16.1.1835, aged 75. It also mentions that the service was carried out
>by
> > a
> > > minister, the Rev. David Jones, and not the vicar. I believe Lewis,
>and
> > > been married previously, as had possibly his wife. Also he had a
>brother
> > > Griffith who was born about 1750. Other children were thought to be:
> > > Elizabeth (1796 -1887)who is thought to have married a John Davies;
>Mary
> > > (1797 - 1844) who married a Daniel Evans of Gilwern, Llangathen; Ann
>born
> > > circa 1802 - 1824); 4. Thomas,11.3.1811 - 12.4.1855) who married
>married
> > > Roberts, born 23.8.1812 of Cwmcwtta, Llansawel.
> > > That is all I have.
> > > Regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > > >From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > > >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:47:52 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Hi John
> > > >
> > > >I have looked at Llanegwad baptism index (Merlin) and there is no
>Thomas
> > > >Jones in the year that you require him.....1828 is the earliest one,
>the
> > > >same for David, closest being 1816 then 1827.....
> > > >
> > > >Normally if no fathers name is given it does mean that he was
> > illigitimate,
> > > >does he give his place of birth as Llanegwad in the census returns,
> > perhaps
> > > >he is going by a different surname to his baptism/birth he could have
> > been
> > > >baptised under his mothers name, but adopted his fathers name this
>does
> > > >happen...or vice versa....thus we would be looking for the wrong
>person.
> > > >The actual register would have to be viewed to solve this problem and
>the
> > > >parish chest records if there are any. When I index baptisms I
>always
> > type
> > > >two entries for illigitimate children, one in the fathers surname and
>one
> > > >in
> > > >the mothers surname .....for this reason.
> > > >
> > > >Why do you say that Lewis Lewis was deceased in 1841?? It does not
>give
> > > >this information on the census.....is it because he was absent??
>This
> > does
> > > >not mean that they were deceased.....
> > > >
> > > >come back and let me know what you think on the above.....
> > > >
> > > >Pauline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: john lewis <johnlewis100(a)hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > >Sent: 22 February 2002 09:20
> > > >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Pauline,
> > > > > I have obtained the marriage cert. (25.6.1845 Llansawel Church) of
> > > >Thomas
> > > > > and Hannah but it doesn't help. There two blanks on the
>certificate
> > > >where
> > > > > Thomas's father's full name and rank or profession should be.
>Does
> > that
> > > > > mean that he was born on the wrong side of the sheets and his
>father
> > is
> > > > > unknown or that his father is deceased. It shows Hannah's father
>as
> > > >Lewis
> > > > > Lewis, farmer, but he was already dead according to the 1841
>Census.
> > > >Has
> > > > > anyone access to Llanegwad parish registers who could look for
>Thomas
> > > >born
> > > > > c.1817 and David born c. 1822 who had the same mother. Thank you.
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > John.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > > > > >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > > > >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:31:42 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hi John
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I did look in 1851 for David Jones in Llanegwad and Llansawel,
>but
> > > >could
> > > > > >not
> > > > > >find appropriate age for him, do you have more information for me
>to
> > > >find
> > > > > >him in 1851......I did find your Thomas Jones and family....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If you know who Thomas' father was I could maybe find him in the
>1851
> > > > > >census
> > > > > >somewhere, or in the marriage database pre 1837....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Pauline
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: john lewis
> > > ><johnlewis100(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > > >To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > > > >Sent: 17 February 2002 15:09
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Pauline,
> > > > > > > Thanks very much for the advice.
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > > > > > >To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:41:37 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >HI John
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >You could look for a baptism in the parish registers.....if
>you
> > > >know
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > > >Thomas married Anna the marriage certificate will give
>fathers
> > name
> > > >and
> > > > > > > >occupation. You could also search for John's to see if they
>give
> > > >the
> > > > > >same
> > > > > > > >fathers name....you'd have to know where John was, unless you
>are
> > > >very
> > > > > > > >lucky
> > > > > > > >and they both married in the parish church.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Pauline
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: john lewis <johnlewis100(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > >To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > > > > > >Sent: 16 February 2002 10:25
> > > > > > > >Subject: [Cmn-L] Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Hello There,
> > > > > > > >I'm looking for a help please. According to the 1841 Census
>the
> > > > > >residents
> > > > > > > >of Pantiauau Farm, Llansawel, Carms., were: Anne Lewis,
>Head,
>67
> > > > > >years,
> > > > > > > >farmer (I know she was a widow at the time); Rachel,
>daughter,
> > > > > >unmarried,
> > > > > > > >32, Anna, daughter, unmarried, 28. Pantiauau outbuildings:
> > Thomas
> > > > > >Jones,
> > > > > > > >agric. labourer, 24, Llanegwad and David Jones, agric.
>labourer,
> > > >19,
> > > > > > > >Llanegwad. By the 1851 Census Thomas had married Anna and
>was
> > > >living
> > > > > >with
> > > > > > > >his young family at Achethganol Farm just across the valley.
>I
> > am
> > > > > > > >descended
> > > > > > > >from their son, Lewis Jones, who moved away from the area as
>a
> > > >young
> > > > > >man.
> > > > > > > >How can I find out more about the origins of Thomas in
>particular
> > ?
> > > > > >Where
> > > > > > > >they brothers ?
> > > > > > > >Regards,
> > > > > > > >John Lewis.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > > > > > > >http://www.hotmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > > > > >WALES GENEALOGY, The Easy Guide to Welsh Genealogy
> > > > > > > >THE GENEALOGY SITE FOR THE WHOLE OF WELSH RESEARCH
> > > > > > > >http://www.WalesGenealogy.co.uk
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > > > > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc
>you
> > > >cannot
> > > > > >find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name
>of
> > > >the
> > > > > >Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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> > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you
>cannot
> > find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
> > Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
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>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
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Surprisingly I was born in Watford! (Herts)
-----Original Message-----
From: john lewis [mailto:johnlewis100@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 22 February 2002 20:27
To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] Daniel Stone - Ancestor
Elwyn,
Thank you very much for the info' I shall certainly follow it up.
Regards,
John Lewis.
P.s. With the name Elwyn Davies you must have been born west of Cardiff !
>From: "Davies, Elwyn" <Elwyn.Davies(a)wh.org.au>
>Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] Daniel Stone - Ancestor
>Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:37:59 +1100
>
>John
>
>I am descended from Isaac Stone who moved to Carmarthenshire from Yatton in
>Somerset. Born abt 1781 in Yatton and died 1857
>
>The family were farmers and it appears likely they moved to Wales from
>Somerset in early 1800s (?1820s)
>
>I do not have a Daniel Stone in there but hope the Yatton link may proves
>useful
>
>Elwyn Davies (Melbourne)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: john lewis [mailto:johnlewis100@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, 21 February 2002 22:51
>To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [Cmn-L] Daniel Stone - Ancestor
>
>
>Hello Pauline,
>Despite years of searching by amateurs and professionals Daniel Stone
>remains an enigma. When he married Elizabeth Morgan, widow, nee William at
>Meidrim on 21.6.1803, he was described as a manservant, not labourer or
>servant, of Llanfihangel Abercywyn. There are no previous entries about
>him
>
>locally and we are certain he was not native born. We believe he came from
>the Som., Wilts. or Devon areas. Witnesses at his wedding were Job William,
>who may have been his wife's father or at least a relative and a Joseph
>Howell. Now Howell is most interesting as on 3.12.1795 a man described as
>Joseph Howell, Gentleman of St. James, Bristol, married a Charlotte Woods
>at
>
>Laugharne. Has anybody come across him or was there a large house/estate
>in
>
>the area owned by him or the Woods ? It's possible he brought Daniel to
>Carms. and if he did it would reasonable pinpoint Daniel's Place of origin.
>Regards,
>John Lewis
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
>find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
>Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
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==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research
questions & Quiries.
http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
Hello Anna
I have found some references to LlwynJack in "Pages from the History of
Llandovery" by Alfred Theodore Arber-Clarke.
It's too much for me to type in now as I have to go out - but I will
send to you sometime this evening off-list.
If anyone else is interested I can copy to them too.
Pat
In message <13c.9d95ce1.29a8cf91(a)aol.com>, AnnaDinahThomas(a)aol.com
writes
>Hi Pauline
>
>Thank you. Caroline did two looks ups for Llwyn Jack free-of-charge so I
>think I've really taken advantage of their good nature long enough having
>also had free look-ups in the past. As soon as I can afford it I'll ask them
>to see what they can find further on Llwyn Jack within a limited time-span.
>It does see sd if they can lay their hands on some information fairly
>quickly.
>
>Anna
>
>
>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find -
>Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc
>etc - He will search the Database
>
--
Pat Powell
----- Original Message -----
From: "l.defrancis" <l.defrancis(a)ntlworld.com>
To: <MIDMARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday 02 2002 4:04 AM
Subject: [MM] Calanders... want to find out what day of the week rellies
were born?
> Hi all,
> Offically calanders in England changed to Julian system in 1752, dropping
11 days in
> September, in Scotland it was later....
> Anyway there is a brilliant programme avaliable as a free download from
Calisto at
> http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~kent/calisto/
>
> You can check day of the week for any date whether it was
Julian/Gregorian, Fesitval Days,
> Red letter days, and comparative calanders (Muslim/Jewish/Russian etc).
>
> Lisa
> Fife
>
>
> ==== MIDMARCH Mailing List ====
> .
>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
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>
>