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Hello Oliver
it's me again - I am transcribing burials for the March quarter of 1889
for FreeBMD so I have the fiche for that quarter.
I can look it up for you if you tell me the name and approx age.
It's only one quarter but at least it will help.
Cheers
Pat
In message <BA0848CF.1423%Oliver.stjohn(a)btinternet.com>, Oliver St John
<Oliver.stjohn(a)btinternet.com> writes
>Hi Pauline, and Thomas,
>Thank you both for your immediate and helpful response. I am much clearer.
>The last time I was loking for burials was in the days when one could just
>walk in to Somerset House and peacefully read through the quarterly volumes.
>I am looking for a burial in 1890 ±2 years, in Pancras probably, but I
>think the beat thing to do is to try the Oxford Central Library first> If
>not I presume my son, if persuaded, could take a look at the Islington FHC,
>who have been very helpful on several occasions during the last year
>Cheers, Oliver.
>
>> From: "Pauline James" <paulinejames(a)btinternet.com>
>> Reply-To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:09:46 -0000
>> To: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Burials
>> Resent-From: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>> Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:08:41 -0700
>>
>> Hi Oliver
>>
>> The GRO index is what we know as 'St Catherine's Index' these are available
>> on fiche per quarter per year.....it does help if you know who was buried,
>> when and where.....
>>
>> The CRO in Carmarthen charge £1 an hour to view the fiche.....do you have
>> access to a record office or perhaps a library that hold these records....
>>
>> The other alternative is to contact the GRO...if you know exactly when this
>> person died, otherwise it can be expensive....
>>
>> If you do not have access to any of these Oliver let me know ..
>>
>> regards Pauline
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Oliver St John" <Oliver.stjohn(a)btinternet.com>
>> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:35 PM
>> Subject: [Cmn-L] Burials
>>
>>
>>> Hi Pauline,
>>> I want to find a burial certificate around 1890 in London, and seem to
>>> rmember you referring to a GRO index? Can you tell me howI go about it and
>>> to whom I should apply? i have discovered the family I was looking into,
>>> altogether in 1901, with the children of both mothers, but want to trace
>> the
>>> death of the first. Cheers Oliver.
>>>
>>>
>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>>> Carmarthenshire Online Databases:
>>> http://www.CarmarthenshireFHS.co.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>> GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research
>> questions & Quiries.
>> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk
>>
>
>
>
>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find -
>Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House etc
>etc - He will search the Database
>
--
Pat Powell
Hi All
I have had the same experiences although a notable few do persist in asking
for look-ups, never seem interested in either purchasing or contributing
(through indexing) and often never have the courtesy to say thank you. But
it's never been a perfect world. If I find that someone doesn't even say
thank you to help then mentally they get blacklisted and I do not respond to
further requests! Others are only too grateful for help given and often
offer lookups in exchange.
At least some of us recognise the value of all the work done in producing
indexes etc and the provision of the census returns on cd by Carms FHS, forf
example, is most welcome. That's why I make my indexes available to such
organisations as I know that they will use them properly.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Powell <pat(a)pcubed.demon.co.uk>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law - comment
> Hello Ray, Richard and all
>
> I have found that when I have done one or more look-ups for someone they
> very often ask where they can purchase their own copy.
> In fact the very act of finding something useful for them has encouraged
> the sale rather than discouraged the sale.
>
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> In message <000701c294a6$11f1b390$0100a8c0@wg>, Cmn <carmarthenshirefhs@
> btinternet.com> writes
> >Hi Ray
> >Yes you are correct, up until recently most Societies produced only
indexes
> >of the information they had transcribed. Which is the Societies
copyright,
> >As you may have seen for the past several years, Many Mailing lists have
> >Lookup exchanges, where they used these Societies Indexes for Lookups.
> >Recently These Societies have got together, instigated by the FFHS
problems
> >with the National Burials Indexes, and asked the Lookup Exchanges to
stop
> >using these Societies Indexes, which was taking revenue from the
Societies.
> >This was the reason Carmarthenshire-L was started initially, because our
> >indexes were being used on these lookup exchanges, without permission.
> >Now if any person wants to carry out lookups on our list, who may have
> >indexes they have transcribed themselves, they are quite welcome to do
so.
> >
> >Regards
> >Richard James
> >Carmarthenshire-L
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dr. Ray Morris" <ray.morris(a)ntlworld.com>
> >To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:57 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law
> >
> >
> >> But I think I am right in saying that the copywright of indexes created
> >from
> >> original documents e.g. census returns, is the property of the indexer?
> >>
> >> Ray
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Cmn <carmarthenshirefhs(a)btinternet.com>
> >> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:50 PM
> >> Subject: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Below, I have added a piece from the Gwent FHS pages. Which really is
> >what
> >> > all Societies are saying today.
> >> > We on the Carmarthenshire-L list will abide by the wishes of all
These
> >> > Societies, and hopefully all listers on our list will, as well.
> >> > It does seem that several Societies are starting there own members
Lists
> >> [As
> >> > we have a Carmarthenshire FHS list, a couple of Societies have asked
how
> >> > they would go about it] they would then carry out lookups etc for
there
> >> > particular members.
> >> > All general Carmarthenshire Questions, Queries, etc will still be
> >carried
> >> > out on the Carmarthenshire-L list. Lookups will only be carried out
from
> >> > Carmarthenshire Indexes etc on the Carmarthenshire-FHS-L mailing
list.
> >> > Falling in line with other Societies around the country.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > Richard James
> >> > Carmarthenshire-L
> >> > ############################################
> >> >
> >> > We understand that some groups (and individuals)
> >> > are failing to recognize the British Laws on Copyright.
> >> > They are buying indexes or other publications and
> >> > publishing them on the Internet without permission.
> >> > Some societies selling publications have complained
> >> > to these unauthorized users with variable success.
> >> > In future, any Member Society taking part in suspect
> >> > activity may be asked to resign from the FFHS.
> >> >
> >> > Use of CD-ROMs may be subject to a Licence Agreement that
> >> > places restrictions on the way in which the data may be used.
> >> > For example, the Licence Agreement for the National Burial Index
> >> > (issued by the Federation of Family History Societies) states that
> >> > "You may not publish or sell any portion of the software
> >> > and data, in printed, electronic, or any other format,
> >> > without prior written consent of the Licensors."
> >> >
> >> > E-mailing part of the data resulting from a look-up is
> >> > regarded as publishing in printed or electronic format.
> >> >
> >> > The laws on copyright state that one can only copy
> >> > a limited percentage of copyright data for one's own use.
> >> > Frequent copying of small amounts of data (which look-ups entail)
> >> > amounts to an excessive use rather than a limited percentage.
> >> > There's a significant difference between doing the odd look-up
> >> > as a favour to a friend, and a look-up service publicly offered
> >> > to all subscribers to a Mailing List or visitors to a web-site.
> >> > The latter is an inducement to use the look-up service
> >> > rather than to buy the original copyrighted product.
> >> >
> >> > #############################################
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >> > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you
cannot
> >> find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of
the
> >> Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >> Carmarthenshire Online Databases:
> >> http://www.CarmarthenshireFHS.co.uk
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find -
> >Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm
House
> >etc
> >etc - He will search the Database
> >
>
> --
> Pat Powell
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
Hi Oliver
The GRO index is what we know as 'St Catherine's Index' these are available
on fiche per quarter per year.....it does help if you know who was buried,
when and where.....
The CRO in Carmarthen charge £1 an hour to view the fiche.....do you have
access to a record office or perhaps a library that hold these records....
The other alternative is to contact the GRO...if you know exactly when this
person died, otherwise it can be expensive....
If you do not have access to any of these Oliver let me know ..
regards Pauline
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oliver St John" <Oliver.stjohn(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:35 PM
Subject: [Cmn-L] Burials
> Hi Pauline,
> I want to find a burial certificate around 1890 in London, and seem to
> rmember you referring to a GRO index? Can you tell me howI go about it and
> to whom I should apply? i have discovered the family I was looking into,
> altogether in 1901, with the children of both mothers, but want to trace
the
> death of the first. Cheers Oliver.
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Online Databases:
> http://www.CarmarthenshireFHS.co.uk
>
Hello,
Could some kind person be able to tell me where I could purchase the
following books?
Sex, Violence & Society in Carmarthenshire 1870-1920 by Russell Davies 1996
History of Caio
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Helen
Hi Pauline,
I want to find a burial certificate around 1890 in London, and seem to
rmember you referring to a GRO index? Can you tell me howI go about it and
to whom I should apply? i have discovered the family I was looking into,
altogether in 1901, with the children of both mothers, but want to trace the
death of the first. Cheers Oliver.
Hello Ray, Richard and all
I have found that when I have done one or more look-ups for someone they
very often ask where they can purchase their own copy.
In fact the very act of finding something useful for them has encouraged
the sale rather than discouraged the sale.
Pat
In message <000701c294a6$11f1b390$0100a8c0@wg>, Cmn <carmarthenshirefhs@
btinternet.com> writes
>Hi Ray
>Yes you are correct, up until recently most Societies produced only indexes
>of the information they had transcribed. Which is the Societies copyright,
>As you may have seen for the past several years, Many Mailing lists have
>Lookup exchanges, where they used these Societies Indexes for Lookups.
>Recently These Societies have got together, instigated by the FFHS problems
>with the National Burials Indexes, and asked the Lookup Exchanges to stop
>using these Societies Indexes, which was taking revenue from the Societies.
>This was the reason Carmarthenshire-L was started initially, because our
>indexes were being used on these lookup exchanges, without permission.
>Now if any person wants to carry out lookups on our list, who may have
>indexes they have transcribed themselves, they are quite welcome to do so.
>
>Regards
>Richard James
>Carmarthenshire-L
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dr. Ray Morris" <ray.morris(a)ntlworld.com>
>To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law
>
>
>> But I think I am right in saying that the copywright of indexes created
>from
>> original documents e.g. census returns, is the property of the indexer?
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Cmn <carmarthenshirefhs(a)btinternet.com>
>> To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:50 PM
>> Subject: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Below, I have added a piece from the Gwent FHS pages. Which really is
>what
>> > all Societies are saying today.
>> > We on the Carmarthenshire-L list will abide by the wishes of all These
>> > Societies, and hopefully all listers on our list will, as well.
>> > It does seem that several Societies are starting there own members Lists
>> [As
>> > we have a Carmarthenshire FHS list, a couple of Societies have asked how
>> > they would go about it] they would then carry out lookups etc for there
>> > particular members.
>> > All general Carmarthenshire Questions, Queries, etc will still be
>carried
>> > out on the Carmarthenshire-L list. Lookups will only be carried out from
>> > Carmarthenshire Indexes etc on the Carmarthenshire-FHS-L mailing list.
>> > Falling in line with other Societies around the country.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Richard James
>> > Carmarthenshire-L
>> > ############################################
>> >
>> > We understand that some groups (and individuals)
>> > are failing to recognize the British Laws on Copyright.
>> > They are buying indexes or other publications and
>> > publishing them on the Internet without permission.
>> > Some societies selling publications have complained
>> > to these unauthorized users with variable success.
>> > In future, any Member Society taking part in suspect
>> > activity may be asked to resign from the FFHS.
>> >
>> > Use of CD-ROMs may be subject to a Licence Agreement that
>> > places restrictions on the way in which the data may be used.
>> > For example, the Licence Agreement for the National Burial Index
>> > (issued by the Federation of Family History Societies) states that
>> > "You may not publish or sell any portion of the software
>> > and data, in printed, electronic, or any other format,
>> > without prior written consent of the Licensors."
>> >
>> > E-mailing part of the data resulting from a look-up is
>> > regarded as publishing in printed or electronic format.
>> >
>> > The laws on copyright state that one can only copy
>> > a limited percentage of copyright data for one's own use.
>> > Frequent copying of small amounts of data (which look-ups entail)
>> > amounts to an excessive use rather than a limited percentage.
>> > There's a significant difference between doing the odd look-up
>> > as a favour to a friend, and a look-up service publicly offered
>> > to all subscribers to a Mailing List or visitors to a web-site.
>> > The latter is an inducement to use the look-up service
>> > rather than to buy the original copyrighted product.
>> >
>> > #############################################
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>> > Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
>> find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
>> Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>> Carmarthenshire Online Databases:
>> http://www.CarmarthenshireFHS.co.uk
>>
>
>
>
>==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
>Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot find -
>Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the Farm House
>etc
>etc - He will search the Database
>
--
Pat Powell
In a message dated 25/11/02 21:01:36 GMT Standard Time,
CARMARTHENSHIRE-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
> But I think I am right in saying that the copywright of indexes created from
> original documents e.g. census returns, is the property of the indexer?
>
I think you are definitely correct there Ray.
Regards Allen in Aberavon
But I think I am right in saying that the copywright of indexes created from
original documents e.g. census returns, is the property of the indexer?
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Cmn <carmarthenshirefhs(a)btinternet.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 2:50 PM
Subject: [Cmn-L] Copyright Law
>
> Below, I have added a piece from the Gwent FHS pages. Which really is what
> all Societies are saying today.
> We on the Carmarthenshire-L list will abide by the wishes of all These
> Societies, and hopefully all listers on our list will, as well.
> It does seem that several Societies are starting there own members Lists
[As
> we have a Carmarthenshire FHS list, a couple of Societies have asked how
> they would go about it] they would then carry out lookups etc for there
> particular members.
> All general Carmarthenshire Questions, Queries, etc will still be carried
> out on the Carmarthenshire-L list. Lookups will only be carried out from
> Carmarthenshire Indexes etc on the Carmarthenshire-FHS-L mailing list.
> Falling in line with other Societies around the country.
>
>
> Regards
> Richard James
> Carmarthenshire-L
> ############################################
>
> We understand that some groups (and individuals)
> are failing to recognize the British Laws on Copyright.
> They are buying indexes or other publications and
> publishing them on the Internet without permission.
> Some societies selling publications have complained
> to these unauthorized users with variable success.
> In future, any Member Society taking part in suspect
> activity may be asked to resign from the FFHS.
>
> Use of CD-ROMs may be subject to a Licence Agreement that
> places restrictions on the way in which the data may be used.
> For example, the Licence Agreement for the National Burial Index
> (issued by the Federation of Family History Societies) states that
> "You may not publish or sell any portion of the software
> and data, in printed, electronic, or any other format,
> without prior written consent of the Licensors."
>
> E-mailing part of the data resulting from a look-up is
> regarded as publishing in printed or electronic format.
>
> The laws on copyright state that one can only copy
> a limited percentage of copyright data for one's own use.
> Frequent copying of small amounts of data (which look-ups entail)
> amounts to an excessive use rather than a limited percentage.
> There's a significant difference between doing the odd look-up
> as a favour to a friend, and a look-up service publicly offered
> to all subscribers to a Mailing List or visitors to a web-site.
> The latter is an inducement to use the look-up service
> rather than to buy the original copyrighted product.
>
> #############################################
>
>
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you cannot
find - Contact - PeterWihl(a)compuserve.com - Let him know the name of the
Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database
>
>
Below, I have added a piece from the Gwent FHS pages. Which really is what
all Societies are saying today.
We on the Carmarthenshire-L list will abide by the wishes of all These
Societies, and hopefully all listers on our list will, as well.
It does seem that several Societies are starting there own members Lists [As
we have a Carmarthenshire FHS list, a couple of Societies have asked how
they would go about it] they would then carry out lookups etc for there
particular members.
All general Carmarthenshire Questions, Queries, etc will still be carried
out on the Carmarthenshire-L list. Lookups will only be carried out from
Carmarthenshire Indexes etc on the Carmarthenshire-FHS-L mailing list.
Falling in line with other Societies around the country.
Regards
Richard James
Carmarthenshire-L
############################################
We understand that some groups (and individuals)
are failing to recognize the British Laws on Copyright.
They are buying indexes or other publications and
publishing them on the Internet without permission.
Some societies selling publications have complained
to these unauthorized users with variable success.
In future, any Member Society taking part in suspect
activity may be asked to resign from the FFHS.
Use of CD-ROMs may be subject to a Licence Agreement that
places restrictions on the way in which the data may be used.
For example, the Licence Agreement for the National Burial Index
(issued by the Federation of Family History Societies) states that
"You may not publish or sell any portion of the software
and data, in printed, electronic, or any other format,
without prior written consent of the Licensors."
E-mailing part of the data resulting from a look-up is
regarded as publishing in printed or electronic format.
The laws on copyright state that one can only copy
a limited percentage of copyright data for one's own use.
Frequent copying of small amounts of data (which look-ups entail)
amounts to an excessive use rather than a limited percentage.
There's a significant difference between doing the odd look-up
as a favour to a friend, and a look-up service publicly offered
to all subscribers to a Mailing List or visitors to a web-site.
The latter is an inducement to use the look-up service
rather than to buy the original copyrighted product.
#############################################
Has anyone else heard of this? Came across this news. Thought I'd share
with everyone. Details at end of message.
Searches will be available from Sunday 8th December 2002
On this site you will find an exact replica of the original indexes of
Births, Marriages and Deaths for England and Wales from 1837 to date. These
images are available to search, view (including zooming in on those
awkward-to-read names), save to disk and print for a modest charge. This
site will be most useful to you if you are already familiar with these
indexes and wish to have the opportunity to search them in your own time,
without having to physically visit a library or a register office.
http://www.1837online.com
Dear James,
Re your interest in CHIVERS. There is a lot about Jacob Chivers and his son
Thomas in a very interesting document on Wesleyan Methodism in Kidwelly
written by W.H Morris. You can access this at
http://www.kidwellyhistory.co.uk/Articles/TrinityChurch/Wesleyanism.htm. I
have a copy of his death certificate showing that he died at his home
'Rheola' in Cinderford on March 31, 1883 at the age of 68. His estate was
handled by his daughter Elizabeth. The man certainly had a full life in his
68 years and apart from mining he built, using his own money, the Wesleyan
Chapel at Kidwelly, and found time to be Mayor, Alderman and JP There were
considerable mining interests in the Cinderford area.
I haven't quite conclusively linked him to my ancestry but I'm nearly there.
All the best
David Morris
Surrey.
Hello Irene,
As I said I will be going upto Merthyr to check the census on Friday so I
will let you know if my Watkins relative was indeed living with your samuel
family. I did not know about the mormon connection until recently but it will
make my search easier. I work from home and I started doing the family
history as a hobby but it is proving to be very interesting and I have met
lots of nice people .
Let you know friday my findings and then we could meet up to see if there are
connections.
All the best Gaynor
Hi Gaynor
I haven't found any Mormons yet. If you would like to meet one lunch time
please let me know
Thank you Irene
----- Original Message -----
From: <Justgayn(a)aol.com>
To: <CARMARTHENSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Edwin Samuel of Swansea/Llanelly
> Hello Irene
> Thanks for your reply. I will be going upto Merthyr library this friday so
I
> will have a look for the census I mentioned. I wrote it down on a notebook
> but because I was not sure if there was a connection to my family I did
not
> enter it on the computer. I will let you know if I have made a
connection.
> Have you found any mormon ancestors in your line, I have found quite a
few?
> It would be nice to meet up to share information.
> I was in pontypridd today .
> All the best gaynor
>
>
>
>
> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Carmarthenshire Online Databases:
> http://www.CarmarthenshireFHS.co.uk
>
>
Hi All,
Back again after changing email address.
Thank you Richard for trying to find my Amy Evans on Meidrim baptisms,.
Any idea where I may try now, bearing in mind she was born in Meidrim approx 1794?.
Also her daughter Catherine Lewis was born Llanegwad 1835/6, but although the rest of her siblings were baptised in Llanegwad church she was not.
Again any idea where I may try next?
Regards Jackie from Devon.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacqueline Tiernan.
jackietiernan(a)btopenworld.com
Tel: +44 (0)1626 202786
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 24/11/02 06:00:53 GMT Standard Time,
CARMARTHENSHIRE-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
> In the post a few days back I received a copy marriage certificate for J=
> ohn=20
> Bright and Miriam Chivers who are without doubt my gtgtgrandparents. The
Hello David,
I think that I can help you here a little.
As you can see the County on the Marriage Cert states Glamorgan, have another
look and see if it reads Michaelston Super Avon.
I have Glam FHS. Trans, for there but they only go up too 1837, so missed it
by months only.
But can see two other Chiver girls getting married there in 1832 and 1834.
Also 1841 Census. Cambrian Row, Cwmdu, Llangynwyd, Glam.
Jacob Chivers. 26. Engineer. No.
Elizabeth Chivers. 27. No.
William Chivers. 1. Yes.
Also same Street.
John Chivers. 20 Engineer. No.
Mary Whittington. 15. F.S. No.
Just found also same St.
John Bright 25. Engineer. No.
Miriam Bright 30. No.
Thomas Bright. 10m. Yes.
Hope you may make some use of those.
Best Regards Allen in sunny Aberavon
Dear James,
Thanks for sorting out the 'Mostrip'. 'Tis very interesting this research.
I'm now finding a 'school teacher' thread and a 'policeman' thread.
I rather think you are right. He liked the ladies.
All the best
David.
Hi list
Been wasting my time in spain looking for the sun!!
Noticed on return a request regarding crews in South Wales Ports.
Swansea Archives do have ships crewing articles and log books, but not for
every ship that
sailed from there.
If the person your looking for was a Master or Mate then if you can
supply name, date and place of birth. Or if your lucky their certificate No.
Contact
e-mail KJones(a)nmm.ac.uk
Kiri Ross Jones National Maritime Museum Greenwich.
All masters and mates had to provide affidavits of their sea time
which was recorded on a form called the "Application for Examination"
This lists all the ships and dates/periods of service. They will
be able to to tell you if they have this data and the cost of copies,
You can then request photocopies of these plus thier Master's/Mate's
certificate (at a fee) I have such a copy from them dated 1865.
The following e-mail address are willing look up Welsh Masters/Mates
in their records
Regandpaddy(a)btinternet.com
For non certificated crew, one has to know the name of the ship
or take the long route, which has no guarantees, That is go to the various
South Wales Archives and search through every ships article they
have.
Years ending in 5 are are also at the PRO. Kew
For the remaining years, and you know the ship contact Paula Marshall
Maritime History Museum
Memorial University New Foundland.
I have checked from my copies of the ships articles of the following
ships commanded by my G/Grandfather 1871 - 1900 at Swansea
Ripple 02.09.1871 - 12.01.1872 ship sunk of Canada
Florence Stella 27.05.1890 - 20.03.1892
Vanduara 04.02.1895- 22.01.1896 sunk by submarine 1914
His son's ship
Sindbad 01.04.1895 - 25.02.1896
Sindbad 30-03.1896 - 07.07.1897 last cargo under sail round the cape
from North Dock Swansea to Caldera
This is all I could find covering 1871 to 1900, many are missing.
These articles list everything name,date,place of birth, address
last ship, wages, when and where signed on and off. Place of death/burial at
sea. For the maritime enthusiast, they make fascinating reading.
However typically of a crew of 30, 10 Welsh of whom 6 are Swansea, 10
English
1 Irish, 6 Scandanavians, 1 Chilean and 1 Canadian and 1 French
They do not list non-seafarers like families( wives and children)
Sorry Heather - No John Harwood onboard the above ships/period.
In my case I have a ship's name, date, position of burial off Jamiaca, death
certificate
PRO oversees record. Canada say the have the articles for that
period. But to get an actual copy of these ships articles which
my G/Grandfather died while in command will cost me #32. From
Swansea they are 30 pence per A3 sheet.
Why we pretend to have a heritage when our governments continually give it
away I dont know.
I belong to a group that was trying to save just one maritime radio station
for a museum.
No all sold for housing. oops must not be political but can I be angry!
Bryan Richards
Dear David,
Miriam's occupation is actually School-mistress, lower case i's and e's can
easily be mistaken even today, indeed they look alike in my own loopy
handwriting. As for the 'p', in 1837 the concept of a leading 's' was still
in use whereby as 's' was written like an f but without the crossbar (I also
write with a leading 's' unbelievably). These elongated s's were often used
where there was a double 's', as in the above word in order to distinguish,
so the first of the two could easily look like the long ascender and
descender of Victorian letter p and the second 's' would look like the loop
of the/a 'p'.
Best wishes
James
Dear David and All,
The message about the CHIVERS family has certainly sparked my interest, it's
lucky that I belong to the Carms. list otherwise I'd never have seen it as
my CHIVERS interest is in Gloucestershire. My ancestor Thomas HALE was born
in 1867 in Ruardean Woodside, Gloucestershire. He was the illegitimate son
of Julia Hale who also had another illegitimate son named George in 1870 (he
died as a child). In 1872 Julia married James Hambidge. He was the son of
George Hambidge so it's very possible that the man Julia married was the
father of her second illegitimate son. However, we do know from family
information that he definitely wasn't the father of her first child, my
ggg-father Thomas, because Thomas apparently maintained links with his real
father and made visits back to the forest to see him, either in Coleford or
Cinderford one source says. The other thing we do know is that Thomas' real
father had the surname CHIVERS. There is much speculation as to his
occupation including coal winder, blacksmith, farmer, gentleman and
engineer. Now you'll see why David's e-mail was of such particular interest.
Jacob Chivers retired to Bishopswood House in Walford just up the road from
Ruardean and family lore has it that Julia Hale was working in service at
the home of one Mr. Chivers who fathered her child. Indeed, the 1871 census
shows that she was working as a charwoman, i.e. domestic servant. I've tried
to find out more about the CHIVERS of this area to try and pinpoint Thomas'
father but have found that it isn't very common there at all so is probably
not a name native to this area, an incoming family would explain it's
presence though. Any thoughts or comments anyone?
Best wishes
James Phillips-Evans