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Listers,
Can anyone advise if" Pencelly", parish of Llangynog, Carmarthenshire,
is a house, farm, hamlet, or village, please? My grt. grt. grand father's
parents ( David DAVIES and his wife Anne (nee RICHARDS from Llangain)
were residing there when he was born in 1827.
Kind regards,
Cynthia Collison
(Australia)
In a message dated 10/29/00 2:54:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
PaulineJames(a)btinternet.com writes:
> Hi Jackie
>
> Here is what I found from Carmathenshire listowners 1873
>
> Mary James - abode Cwmgogeddau 77A 3R 27P estimated gross rental £38
> Mary James - abode Llwynpiod, 14A 1P 6R est. gross rental £16 16shillings
> Mrs James - abode Salisbury, 115A est. gross rental £115.
>
> are any of these yours??
>
>
Pauline,
Thanks for the look up. I don't know if any of these are mine. Are any of
the above abodes near Llandovery, Llandigat or Mydaffi?
Jackie
Pigot's Commercial Directory
To LONDON (in five days),David Rees and son,from their warehouse,Blue
St,every Tuesday-and Ann Prosser,from Lammas St. every week.
To ABERYSTWITH & ABERAYRON
Thomas Bowen,from Rees and son's warehouse,once a fortnight.
To BRECON (in two days),David Rees and son,& Ann Prosser,every week.
To BWNCATH,David Harries,from the Rose and Crown,occasionally.
To CARDIGAN, Morris Davies,from the Bear,and from Rees and son's
warehouse,every wednesday.
To GLOUCESTER & WORCESTER
(in four days),from whence goods are despatched to all parts of the
kingdom,David Rees and son,every week.
To HAVERFORDWEST,NARBERTH and ST. CLEARS, David Rees and son,and Ann
Prosser,every week.
To KIDWELLY,Mary Gower,from the Wheat Sheaf,every week.
To LAMPETER,David Owen,from the Six Bells,twice a week.
To LAUGHARNE,William Beynon,from the Rose and Crown,and John Davies,from the
Old Plough,every wednesday and saturday.
To LLANDOVERY and LLANDILO,David Rees and son,and Ann Prosser,every week.
To LLANDYSILL, from the Six Bells,twice a week.
To LLANELLY, John Charles,from Lammas St,every thursday.
To LLANGELOR,James Davies,from the Rose and Crown,every saturday.
To PEMBROKE, David Rees ahd son,from their warehouse,once a week.
To ST.CLEARS, David Rees and son,and David Evans,from the cock,and Jno
Davies,from the Old Plough,weekly.
To SWANSEA, David Rees and son,and William Jones,from their houses,Priory
Street,twice a week.
Barrie
#2032
David Peter (1765-1837)
David Peter, the notable minister of Heol Awst (Lammas Street) Chapel, was
born in Aberystwyth in 1765 and entered the Presbyterian Academy in August
1783, when it was located at Rhydygors, Johnstown. Here he studied for a
short time at his own expense under the tutorship of Robert Gentleman. He
then seems to have abandoned his ministerial plans and is next found keeping
a school at St Ishmaels Pembrokeshire for twelve months. He returned in
August 1786 to re-enter the Academy which had been temporarily removed to
Swansea.
In October 1789 the Presbyterian Board appointed him to the Classical and
Mathematical tutorship of the Academy at Swansea. In December 1792 the
members of the Protestant congregation assembling at Lammas Street,
Carmarthen, gave him a call to be their minister and he accepted the
pastorate of Heol Awst Chapel. In 1795 the Presbyterian Academy was
re-established at Carmarthen with David Peter as senior tutor. For forty
years he remained in this post as well as being the head of the 'grammar'
school which was run in connection with the Academy, until his retirement in
1835. At the same time he continued to be the minister of Lammas Street
Chapel which he rebuilt and enlarged in 1802 and again in 1826. Classes for
the Academy and the attached school were held in the Chapel buildings.
David Peter lived for a time in the house on the right of the entry into
Quakers Yard, Lammas Street. he also stayed for some time in 1795 in the
house of John Ross, the printer. He died at Peterwell in 1837.
In the passageway to the old Quaker meeting house in Quakers Yard, Lammas
Street, is an inscribed stone in as wall which reads: This is the propery of
David Peter, 1831.
Pauline James
Carmarthenshire FHS
http://www.Carmarthenshire.btinternet.co.uk
Hi Heather
I just answered this on the e-mail which you sent to my personal e-mail
address - no wonder they keep on being duplicated - or even not arriving at
all.
let me know the answer bye Pauline -
>From A DICTIONARY OF BRITISH SURNAMES
By P.H.REANEY.
LLOYD, Lloyds,Loyd: Richard Loyt 1327 SRWO (Subsidy Rolls,Worcestershire);
Ithell Lloit 1391 chirk (chirk,G.P. Jones The extent of Chirkland 1391-1393)
London 1933); Richard Lloyd 1524 SrSf (Subsidy Rolls,Suffolk) Welsh Llwyd
'Grey'
JOHN, Johnes,Johns,Johnys,Joan,Joanes,Jone,Jones,Joynes,Fitzjohn: Johannes
c1140 dc(L); Alanus Filius Jene 1275 RH(L);Willelmus Filius Gene 1276
RH(Y);Walterus Filius Jone 1279 RH (Hu); Jon 1292 SRLo;Richard Le Fitz Joan
1327 SRSo;Johan 1379 Pty;Petrus Johannis 1230 CL(Sf);Thomas John 1279 RH
(Bk);Matilda Jones ib.(Hu); Arnold Johan 1280 LLB A; Robert Jhoun 1295
Barnwell (C); Thomas Fiz Jon 1296 SRSx; Richard Jon,Robert Jone 1327 SRSx;
Roger Jonis 1327 SRSf; Robert Johns 1327 SRSo; Robert Joyne,June 1524 SRSf.
Hebrew Johanan 'Jehovah has favoured',usually latinized as Johannes in early
documents. OFr Johan,Jehan. By the beginning of the 14th century John
rivalled William in popularity and has always been a favourite name. The
feminine Joan,latinized as Johanna,was also common and had the same forms
and pronunciation as John. The surname may derive from either, Johan became
Jan and Jon, and Jehan became Jen,with diminutives
Janin,Jonin,Jenin,Janet,Jonet,Jenet; Jankin,Jonkin,Jenkin. A pet-form was
Han,with diminutives Hancock,Hankin,,Jack is sometimes for John. The Welsh
form was Ieuan,Evan (v. Jevon,Evans). The form Ioan was adopted for the
Welsh authorized version of the bible, hence the frequency of the Welsh
patronymic Jones, for Joynes, v. Johnson. v. Also
Jack,Jan,Jean,Jenkin,Jennings,Jinkin,Hann,Hancock,Hankin,Henkin.
Barrie
#2032
Hi Larry,
I checked the Guppy list and couldn't find the name LAWFIELD.
However it may be worth your while getting from your library the following.
A DICTIONARY OF BRITISH SURNAMES by P.H. REANEY (Routledge and Keagan Paul)
published over 100 years ago. I copied some family names and will put some
up on the list, so you can see what you get.
Barrie
#2032
Hello Pauline
Sending again. I do not know why you do not get my emails?
Regards Heather in Yorkshire
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Smith <heather.smith8(a)virgin.net>
To: <CarmarthenFHS2(a)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Daniel Mainwaring of Llanelli
> Hello Pauline
>
> I am just picking up all the Daniel Mainwaring's that I can find, or any
> other Mainwaring.
>
> So Far: Daniel a mason of Carmarthen town who made his will 1839. Do you
> have a copy of this will? Married Mary Rees at St Peters Carmarthen.
> 20/03/1803. (you gave me this one).
>
> Three Daniel's born to Edward of Llandebie and Elizabeth Walters. Showing
> reference to Pr's
>
> 30/11/1778 Daniel of Westfa
> 16/03/1782 Jno of Hengoed
> 16/03/1782 Mary of Hengoed
> 15/17/1787 Ann of Westfa
> 15/07/1787 Evan of Westfa
> 01/06/1791 William
> 29/07/1793 Daniel
> 29/05/1797 Daniel
> 03/09/1797 Thomas (b.12.12.1795) of Hengoed
> 20/01/1804 Arthur - mason
> 20/01/1804 - mason
>
> Edward described as a mason. The above may be one or two families. Edward
> died at Llannon 16/08/1834 aged 80 years when he was living at Gelligaled
> Fach.
>
> I need an Anne Born to Daniel Mainwaring around 1818-1821. Do you have the
> parish records for Hengoed or Westfa? What happened to the register's from
> Llandebie?
>
> Regards Heather
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CarmarthenFHS2(a)aol.com>
> To: <heather.smith8(a)virgin.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Daniel Mainwaring of Llanelli
>
>
> > Hi Heather
> >
> > Where did you get the baptisms of Llanelli from??
> >
> > I have an Edward Manwaring marrying an Elizabeth Walters as you have
given
> in
> > 1778 30th October - he from Llandebie she from Llanarthney.
> >
> > I could find no other excepting 10 years later, but in the Llanelli
> baptisms
> > there is an Edward and Elizabeth Mainwaring from Westfa baptising
children
> > from November 1778 until 1793....
> >
> > there was a Daniel Mainwaring baptised 30th Nov 1778 to Edward and
> Elizabeth
> > also in
> >
> > 1793 Daniel Mainwaring son Edward and Elizabeth (no date given)
> >
> > The name kept on jumping from Manwaring to Mainwaring - but at no time
in
> my
> > parish registers does a mason as occupation for Edward arise or the
maiden
> > name for Elizabeth....ours were transcribed from Llanelly Parish
> registers.
> >
> > only once a mason was mentioned and that was in 1804 for a daughter
named
> > Elizabeth, again Manwaring.....not sure if your Edward and Elizabeth.
> >
> > I cannot find anything to say that the above are not yours, but nothing
to
> > say they are either, they may have moved to Llanelli straight after
their
> > marriage .......Llanarthney and Llandebie are not that far.
> >
> > let me know what you think - I don't have any information on baps etc.,
> for
> > Llandebie -
> >
> > Pauline
> >
>
Hello again Pauline,
Yes, its the Whitehall vaults that I could't remember, the Wart is the Warterloo-
we always used to call it that. I know where the Vine is now. My middle brother
and I used to walk from Sandy Rd to Sunday School in St Peter's so I can remember
quite a few of the shops/pubs on that side of the road. If that is Jim's area
it's Mam's end of Station Road so I'll have to 'nag' her to try and jog her
memory. I'm sure Jim, when he reads this, will feel condident of success knowing
he has so many locals on his case!!!!!!
I'm not getting to do much of my research either, though I did send for two death
certs last week. I spoke to Ann Jones at the Register Office- they're so helpful
aren't they?. I've always been told my paternal gt grandfather died in a pit
accident, but I didn't know where or when and with a name like David Jones there
was no point in looking in the St Catherine Indexes. I found him buried in Adulam
though so I now know where it happened - Porthdafen colliery. My list ( if I get
round to making one!) of things to follow up seems to get longer and longer, I'm
sure I'll have something to ask before long!
regards,
Angela
CarmarthenFHS2(a)aol.com wrote:
> Hi Angela
>
> I am the same, when I write an e-mail I have to go over again and take half
> of the words out because I write as I speak - in the Llanelli
> accent.......when I don't check it, it is a shambles......
>
> I am unsure where James Nash's shop was but in the 1897 directory it is
> numbered between the Vine and the Waterloo public houses (trust me to notice
> the pubs) The Vine closed down for a while but I think that it has re-opened
> - off the top of my head from the cinema looking towards Station Road on the
> right, I think it's Barnums (late Whitehall Vaults), another new pub (don't
> know the name), The Waterloo then the Rolling Mill?? and on the same side
> but across the road is the Vine - I've never heard of the 'Wart'.....I know
> there used to be a lot more but lots have gone now. I don't go down Station
> Road very often, I'm always in Queen Victoria road because I call in the
> sorting office, and then park in ASDA - I'll have to go this week and re-cap
> my brain......
>
> We're bound to sort this out, Sarah's friend's g'mother is from New Dock,
> been told that an Aubrey has her hair done with her, but on hols this week so
> won't find out until next week, I've got an undertakers wife making enquiries
> on Glanalla Road, so somewhere we are going to turn up trumps - hope so
> anyway.....keep each other posted -
>
> Not the weather for our graveyards this week - Richard bought wellies - but
> no sun out to emphasise the headstones.......he's on the last section
> too........phoned Box cemetary about the Nash grave - they are very helpful
> there I must say.
>
> Any luck on your researches ?? I haven't looked since - let me know if you
> want me to look at something, always glad to help and I'm grateful for your
> help......
>
> bye Pauline
Hello Pauline and list,
sorry, I was in such a hurry, I sent my mail off whithout checking or signing it-
I've just read it and its not very easy to understand :-((
Angela in Cardiff
"davies.family" wrote:
> Pauline,
>
> Just read your reply to Liz, which pub is/was the Vine- the Wart was just round
> the corner to Mam's home in Lakefield Road. I know that the Rolling Mill is on
> the Lakefield Road end but I can't remember the name of the pub on the other end,
> the one on the end of Waterloo Street, or was that pub the Wart? if it was what
> was the pub in the middle? Have I confused you. I know that in that one tiny
> stretch there was a pub on either corner with one in the middle.. There was a
> sweet shop in the middle too, next to Wherle's shop - is this where Jim's
> relative's were?
Pauline,
Just read your reply to Liz, which pub is/was the Vine- the Wart was just round
the corner to Mam's home in Lakefield Road. I know that the Rolling Mill is on
the Lakefield Road end but I can't remember the name of the pub on the other end,
the one on the end of Waterloo Street, or was that pub the Wart? if it was what
was the pub in the middle? Have I confused you. I know that in that one tiny
stretch there was a pub on either corner with one in the middle.. There was a
sweet shop in the middle too, next to Wherle's shop - is this where Jim's
relative's were?
Hi Angela
I am the same, when I write an e-mail I have to go over again and take half
of the words out because I write as I speak - in the Llanelli
accent.......when I don't check it, it is a shambles......
I am unsure where James Nash's shop was but in the 1897 directory it is
numbered between the Vine and the Waterloo public houses (trust me to notice
the pubs) The Vine closed down for a while but I think that it has re-opened
- off the top of my head from the cinema looking towards Station Road on the
right, I think it's Barnums (late Whitehall Vaults), another new pub (don't
know the name), The Waterloo then the Rolling Mill?? and on the same side
but across the road is the Vine - I've never heard of the 'Wart'.....I know
there used to be a lot more but lots have gone now. I don't go down Station
Road very often, I'm always in Queen Victoria road because I call in the
sorting office, and then park in ASDA - I'll have to go this week and re-cap
my brain......
We're bound to sort this out, Sarah's friend's g'mother is from New Dock,
been told that an Aubrey has her hair done with her, but on hols this week so
won't find out until next week, I've got an undertakers wife making enquiries
on Glanalla Road, so somewhere we are going to turn up trumps - hope so
anyway.....keep each other posted -
Not the weather for our graveyards this week - Richard bought wellies - but
no sun out to emphasise the headstones.......he's on the last section
too........phoned Box cemetary about the Nash grave - they are very helpful
there I must say.
Any luck on your researches ?? I haven't looked since - let me know if you
want me to look at something, always glad to help and I'm grateful for your
help......
bye Pauline
Hi Pauline.
We can join the club right now getting some very cool weather, but had a
couple of very welcome rain storms.
Our gas is still sold by the gallon, we are very fortunate to travell any
where we wan't by freeway, but through town can now be a night mare.
I can sympathise about the roundabouts they scared the living day lights out
of me, shankseys poney is more appealing as each day passes :-)))))))).
I do believe some idiot here has been to england and copied an idea from you
guys, they are making switch back out of a road they have signs up saying it
is traffic calming, they have small islands joined to the side walk and
jutting into the road and small circles in between, this is both sides of the
road, so only one car can now travel in each direction, balmy if you ask
me,oh! well have to spend the tax payers money on something, they not only
have to take care of the landscaping they planted very pretty and asthetic,
but now have to employ city workers for the up keep.
And for that they are now trying to put a tax on all our utilities, i have a
big sign put there by the NO on utility tax people in my front yard, we go to
the polls Nov;11.
This is kinda of topic, but it does show how close these 2 countrys are in
many things.
Bye for now Sylvia
Hello Peter
Welcome to the list......how are you and Les getting on?? I have met Les and
Sandy on two occasions when they were visiting from Canada - they are very
nice people, so glad that I could put you both in touch - and both on
different sides of the World.....
I have looked at Llangunnor baptisms - do you have these for the children of
Benjamin and Charlotte....
Llangunnor Baptisms
7th Nov 1830 - Rachel Griffithsdau Benjamin and Charlotte
8th Sept 1833 - John Griffiths son Benjamin and Charlotte
17th Feb 1839 - George Griffiths son Benjamin and Charlotte
5th May 1844 - born 19th March 1844 - David son Benjamin and Charlotte
7th June 1846 - born 8th May 1846 - Benjamin son Benjamin and Charlotte
The marriage for the above took place in Llangunnor parish church on 24th
November 1829 - Benjamin Griffiths Llangain and Charlotte Jones of LLangunnor.
Llangunnor Burials 1813-1875
21st December 1860 - Charlotte Griffiths, Carmarthen aged 55 years
Not sure if her, but a possibility - not one for Benjamin before 1875 -
unless he is buried elsewhere......
As a member if you want me to look at the transcript for the above let me
know, and I'll see who the witnesses were for you.
I'll see if I can find more on Llanelli links - have you been to our web
pages on Llanelli Historical Society - there are baptisms, burials and
marriages plus the 1833 voters list to view .......
One note ** Richard Rees married Susan Freeman - not a Bernard!!
speak soon Pauline
Hi Liz
Thanks for answering - I've also got Angela asking everywhere too.......you
were in the right place living to have heard of these people - the Aubrey's
married into the Nash family who also had a confectioners in Station Road,
but these left for America......story told that they run the Cleveland Hotel,
but not found any evidence of this, I know this was a Temperance House - now
demolished due to a fire.
Yes I remember Orsi's in Station Road, according to the 1897 directory for
LLanelly James Nash was in-between the Waterloo Public house and the Vine Inn
- both still in business today - this is if the route was correct, as is the
Apple Tree (Station Road is still the 'in' place for hen and stag parties to
call in every public house) ......the Nash family were also in High Street,
just up the road from Station Road....sister in law was Annie Miller. There
was also Wm Nash in Water Street so at the turn of the century they were
fairly prominent in Llanelli, there must still be some trace of this family
somewhere. Martha Nash died in 1919 from Glanalla Road and her grandaughter
surname Griffiths No. 12 Glanalla Road was the informant at her death. Do
you have any idea when Glanalla Road was built, it was not there in 1897..
I think that both cafe's you mention are still going - yes I think the
ice-cream parlour (sounds good) was Rabbiotti's, and I think that one is
still there too.
My aunt and uncle used to live in Railway Terrace and both only died over the
past few years, he being 89 (my mothers brother) and she was 90 - they surely
would have heard of them, well my auntie Katie would have anyway - she knew
everyone...
Sorry to ramble on, but would like to find out more about this family -
someone must have heard of them somewhere -
thanks again - if you can add more to this, please do
bye Pauline
Hi Kate
Are these the Thomas White and Hannah you are looking for???
Carmarthen 1851 census - enu dist 2L, folio 269 page 19
79 Kidwelly Fach
Thomas White head marr 37 Haulier born Carmarthen
Hannah White wife marr 38 born Llangain Carms
David White son 16 born Llangain
Thomas White son 14 scholar born Carmarthen
John White son 13 one of twins born Carmarthen
Elizabeth White dau 13 one of twins born Carmarthen
William White son 9 scholar born Carmarthen
Richard White son 2 born Carmarthen
Richard Davies lodger 75 pauper, blind deaf and dumb born Carmarthen
John Lewis lodger 30 Chelsea out pensioner born Carmarthen
It looks as if John Lewis could be a brother - find a marriage for the above
two below:
11th November 1834 Llangain parish church
Thomas White parish Llandeveilog and Hannah Lewis parish Llangain
I've looked for White's in The Story of Carmarthen - but the only ones there
are a John and Hannah White who was a noted school-master, keeping the first
in Priory Street and then in King Street - this family went on run a
Printing Business.
speak soon Pauline - let me know if the above are the correct ones.....
HI Sylvia
We still use miles when travelling - but the sell petrol by the litre - which
makes it sound cheaper than what it is......
Our motorways in this part of Wales are still two lanes each way, until you
get to Port Talbot in Glam, where there are 3 lanes for a while - going West
towards Pembrokeshire is the same, two lanes, but our motorways do not go
everywhere yet....I only drive as far as Carmarthen one way and Swansea the
other, where-ever you go now, there are either roundabouts or
mini-roundabouts cropping up everywhere.....
Pauline - very very windy and very wet....................