Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:19:53 -0400
To: Patricia_Tidmarsh
From: "Daniel P. Carman" <dcarman(a)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Comparison of Dates John-2 Carman's Children
Cc: CARMAN-CONTACTS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Patricia,
I was interested by your comparison of dates drawn
between three former recorders of Carman Genealogy for the
children of John-2 (John-1) Carman in your recent post to the
Carman-l list on Rootsweb sent 18 Jun 1999.
However, there are a few pertinent points to genealogy that
need to be mentioned. First of all, at no point were the dates used
in the comparison qualified to be "circa" dates. Circa by definition means
"about"; used especially in giving approximate dates and often abreviated.
William Stillwell Carman did not indicate in most of his manuscripts
a circa date with the standard abbreviation. The reader must conclude
that without documentation and the generally abreviation of only a year
for a birth date that it was a Circa date or approximate estimate of the
birth year for the child.
Henry Alanson Tredwell did indicate for the dates used for John-2 Carman's
children that the dates were circa dates. Although, you skipped a date
for daughter
Hannah's birth for Tredwell, he did indicate circa 1660 for a
birth year.
Carol Carman Hall did not use the circa abbreviation for dates of birth for
John-2's children but he did mention in the succeeding paragraph that, "The
reader is advised that since this is a family history, not a genealogy,
all dates
given, names of families married into, etc., are only
approximated in most instances". Your post gave a date of 1660 for Mr.
Hall's birth year for Hannah-3. It was 1659/60. Carol Carman Hall also had
typos listing
1770 for the birth of Joshua and 1771 for Joseph Carman. These should
be
1670 and 1671, respectively.
With all this said the comparison of the dates used by the three
former recorders for the children of John-2 Carman is meaningless without
the facts used to determine the dates! The question could be asked for
all, "Why did the recorder use this date for approximate year of birth?"
i.e. Why did William Stillwell Carman use 1667 for Joseph-3 and Mr.
Tredwell used 1676?
Today we have more firm evidence to either confirm a birth year
or better information to determine a circa date. If John-3 and Caleb-3
Carman
appear on the 1683 Rate list for the Town of Hempstead, that
would indicate they were of legal age (21 years) in 1683. Is but one
example of information supporting a date.
I would refer you to the Carman Meeting Place web site were there
is a very documented and cited online chapter on John-2 Carman and
his children.
Bottom line, the your post highlighted the past problems with
determining the ages of children but the speculation or comparison is
meaninglless without the events that surrounded the family that aid the
genealogist in providing an educated guess or "circa" date. There is plenty
of room for fudging yet for this family group. Placement for the children
was
greatly aided by the fact that John-2 Carman identified several
children
in his Will of 1684.
I currently show the following dates for the children of John-2 Carman
John Carman b. circa 1656
Caleb Carman b. circa 1658
Hannah Carman b. circa 1660
Benjamin Carman b. circa 1662
Abigail Carman b. 1664 <--"Not circa" born this year.
Samuel Carman b. circa 1665
Thomas Carman b. circa 1671
Joshua Carman b. circa 1674
Joseph Carman b. circa 1676
Hope this was of help, Dan