Hi Dave,
I spent some time yesterday reading through pre-1856 records on film at the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Family History Centre. I copied down all the records
relating to your Collins branch. I thought that you might like to add this information to
your collection.
It is basically a record of all the Christenings of each of the children born to Thomas
and Sophia Pamela, that were recorded in NSW. ( NSW extended up into what is now
Queensland at that time).
Fanny Danvers COLLINS. B.Dec 1st 1827 on the ship "Elizabeth". Father's
occupation given as commander of the ship "Elizabeth".
James Carden COLLINS. B.Feb 15th 1829 to Thomas and Sophia Collins in Sydney. Occ. Master
Mariner.
William Henry COLLINS. B. Oct 11th 1831 to Thomas and Sophia in Elizabeth St. occ. master
Mariner.
William COLLINS B. Oct 19th 1932 son of Thomas and Sophia Pamela. in Sydney. occ Master
Mariner.
Emma Pamela COLLINS. B.Jan 16th 1834 to Thomas and Sophia Pamela in Annandale. occ.
Merchant.
Jessie Lambert COLLINS B. Jan 18th 1836 to Thoams and Sophia Pamela in Annandale. occ.
Merchant.
Thomas Danvers COLLINS B. Oct 17th 1837 to Thomas and Sophia Pamela of Annandale Cottage.
occ. Master mariner.
Ann COLLINS B. Nov 21st 1846 to Thomas and Sophia at Cook's River. occ. Wood Mason
Sophia Elizabeth Earle COLLINS B 22nd Oct 1849 to Thomas and Sophia Pamela at Teleraine
Logan River, County of Stanley. Baptised at St. John's Church Brisbane.
Obviously those children born overseas are not listed. There is a discrepancy between
these records and the list of names and births that you sent me. The main one is the
addition of the child Ann Collins born in the same year that you have for Sophia Elizabeth
Earle Collins. I also have a different date for SEEC.
One of the things that got me excited about this list of children was that Ann and my
Thomas were both born at Cook's River. Perhaps Ann is not one of yours but the
daughter of another Thomas and Sophia who are in fact connected to my Thomas Collins. What
do you think? Do you have any record of Ann belonging to your group?
Back to you to see if there are any more pieces that fit.
Regards,
Kay Vinson
D Collins wrote:
Hullo, Kay Vinson.
We may very well have something to talk about alright. However it may be a little more
obscure than it appears at first sight.
I now have a fairly well documented family tree, with indisputable backup, starting with
Captain Thomas Collins' father. He was James Collins and his wife was Sally. They
owned a business near Bristol that included dyeing - they held a Royal patent for a
particular purple.
Thomas [no second name], born in 1790, married Sophia Pamela Danvers. Her family
[d'Anvers] is traced back to Normandy prior to the Battle of Hastings - most
interesting some of her forebears. Thomas was encouraged to go to sea by a near
neighbour, surname Noad, who was a noted Royal Navy officer. He first visited Sydney in
1814. Thomas eventually owned many ships including a fleet of whalers that operated out
of Sydney. Interesting that Sophia lived alternatively in Sydney and Ride in Somerset
[now a part of Wiltshire] over seventeen years. Five times she made the trip between
Australia and England between 1827 and 1844. One voyage was via Cape Horn, the rest via
Good Hope. One voyage took seven months after major damage in a storm in the Bay of
Biscay, and a near sinking after dismasting in a storm off Good Hope.
After 1844 they became graziers, pioneering much land development in the Boonah region of
south Queensland.
Their son [Sophia had 13 children in all, but five did not survive] James Carden Collins,
my g-grandfather, was born at sea off Trinidad on a trading voyage via the West Indies and
South America to Sydney.
Son Thomas Danvers Collins was born in Sydney on Oct 17, 1837. So far I have no more
information on him.
Captain Thomas Collins had one sister, Ann. She married William Wilks in Sydney in 1831,
and after a period in Queensland, they settled in Melbourne.
The following is the list of descendants of James and Sally Collins for three generations
[James as 1]. We do not know yet if Thomas had any brothers and/or sisters other than
Ann. What I cannot see yet is where your Arthur Victor Carden and Ellan Hannah Collins
fit in. I can only think that Ellan was from eg James Collins' brother. At present
we are not aware of any siblings of James. Arthur was given to a son of Thomas and
Sophia, and to one of James Carden's sons for his first name [the Wills family he
married into is about to have a reunion in Queensland], but there are no Victors, no
Ellans and no Hannahs in the two generations after James - nor indeed in any of the
subsequent generations although I have little information yet on some of James
Carden's brothers lines.
Descendants of James Collins
1 James Collins
.. +Sally
..... 2 Thomas Collins b: 1790 in Road, Somerset d: 6 August 1866 in
Nindooinbah, Albert River, Queensland
......... +Sophia Pamela Danvers b: 16 October 1808 in Richmond : 1863 in
At Telemon, Queensland m: 9 August 1826 in Parish Church, Richmond, Surrey,
England
............ 3 Francis Danvers Collins b: 27 December 1827 in Sydney, Australia
d: 1828 in Sydney, Australia
............ 3 James Carden Collins b: 15 February 1829 in At sea, off
Trinidad, West Indies d: 5 June 1916 in Erewhon, Yeppoon
................ +Mary Helena Glennie b: 1833 d: 6 December 1870 in
Thornhill, Bundaberg m: 13 August 1852 in Unumigar Station, Hunter River, NSW
............ *2nd Wife of James Carden Collins:
................ +Susan Jane Cox Pugh b: Abt. 1840 in Bermuda d: 5
August 1918 in General Hospital, Rockhampton m: 1 April 1871 in District Registrar
Office, Toowoomba
............ 3 William Humphrey Collins b: 13 November 1831 d: 1831
............ 3 William Alex Collins b: 13 November 1832 in Sydney, Australia
d: 2 December 1832
............ 3 Emma Pamela Collins b: 16 January 1834 in Sydney, Australia
d: 6 July 1915
................ +Andrew Inglis Henderson b: 17 May 1822 d: 15
June 1908 m: 10 February 1853
............ 3 Jessie Lambert Collins b: 18 January 1836 in Sydney, Australia
d: June 1911
................ +Alfred William Compigne b: 1818 d: 4 June 1909
m: in Telemon, Queensland
............ 3 Thomas Danvers Collins b: 17 October 1837 in Sydney, Australia
............ 3 Arthur Brook Whittaker Collins b: 8 August 1839 in Sophia's
old home, Wiltshire
............ 3 Humphrey Minchen Robert Graeme Collins b: 30 May 1841 in Rode,
Somerset d: Abt. 1912 in California
............ 3 Sophia Elizabeth Earl Collins b: 22 October 1846 in Telemon
d: 1929 in Greycliffe
................ +William Nott b: Abt. 1843 in Narellen, NSW d: 1903
in Greycliffe m: 1871 in Thornhill Station
..... 2 Ann Collins b: 1793
......... +William Wilks b: 1801 m: 30 April 1831 in St James,
County of Cumberland, NSW
............ 3 Mary J Wilks b: 1832
I think we may have to go back to England and try to find if James Collins had a brother
[possibly named Thomas] who was the grandfather perhaps of Ellan. I an sure James Collins
was born in Somerset because James Carden Collins once said he came from an old Somerset
family. He was definitely referring to the Collins' because the Danvers were well
established in Wiltshire.
Anyway, let me know if you see any other clues in the data above. It should be pursued
by us because a Carden marrying a Collins is what I have been looking for. A minor clue -
William Wilks was from Kent [Canterbury is in Kent] and it is possible he met Ann before
going to Australia.
The Collins' are keen to be known as Anglicans! I detect no anti-Catholicism, just a
desire to be known as English and Anglican! Actually there was strong church involvement
in the Danvers, and James Carden Collins first wife was from a family that established the
Anglican church over large areas of Queensland. So, there may be a minor clue there
also.
The ship that Captain Thomas used for his personal voyages to Australia was called the
'Elizabeth'. Passenger lists may show if he brought other members of the family
to Australia. The NSW shipping records are freely available. I have the record of his
first trip but have not had time to get others. The first voyage we are aware of in the
'Elizabeth' to Australia was in 1826, but we do not know if the arrival was 1826
or 1827. The next voyage started and finished in 1929. The family lived in Sydney from
1829 to 1837 while Thomas sailed the China/India/England/Australia routes. They returned
to England on the Elizabeth in 1837. The final voyage to Australia, the one with storms,
was in the 'Angelina', and was in 1844.
Incidentally, in addition to the 'Elizabeth' and the three whaling vessels, we
know of seven ships that transported a variety of settlers to Australia, often less
willing types!
Well that was all a bit long winded. I have not found time to do much research in
Australia. I picked up some early info while visiting Rockhampton last year - James
Carden spent his last 40 years in that area and there are many relatives there. From that
info I made contact with a number of Collins relatives who have provided me with most of
the info. Until I asked a couple of odd questions, and someone produced Captain
Thomas' will, we did not know he had a sister Ann! That discovery was just this
month! I have now his will and a very long letter he wrote from Sydney to his wife in
England to arrange the permanent emigration to Australia. There is no mention of any
relatives apart from his immediate family in those documants.
Let me know what you think!
Very pleased to have made your acquaintance, and thanks very much for responding.
Regards,
Dave Collins
dave.clnz(a)xtra.co.nz
ph (09) 298 6614
-----Original Message-----
From: Kay Vinson [SMTP:vbn553@ihug.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 19 July 1999 01:23
To: D Collins
Subject: Re: [CARDEN-L] Carden link
Dear Dave,
My name is Kay Vinson(nee Carden). I too have been doing research on the Carden and
Collins lines. My GGrandfather Arthur Victor Carden married Ellan Hannah Collins, the
daughter of Thomas Collins and Maria Jane Jones. Thomas and his wife and children lived in
the Gosford area of NSW. I believe from what is recorded on the certificates that I have
for thomas' children that Thomas was born in the vicinity of Canterbury in the early
1830's.
All I know of his parents is that his father was also Thomas. I have done research trying
to establish his exact parentage and came across a birth entry that I thought could have
been his. Thomas Danvers Collins was born to Thomas (a master mariner of Annandale
Cottage) and Sophia Pamela Danvers in 1837. I have checked the records and found that
Thomas and Pamela had several other children, the second of whom was James C. Collins. If
this
Thomas is "my" ancestor then that that makes him a brother to your
GGrandfather.
At this stage I am not sure if he really is part of my line, but if so, then there is a
definite Carden connection.
Let me know if what I have written here tallies at all with your own research.
regards,
Kay Vinson
D Collins wrote:
> Hello to all the Cardens.
>
> It is time to re-introduce myself to you all. My name is David [Dave] Carden
Collins. I have been reading all your correspondence with great interest although I have
not seen the link to me I am looking for.
>
> I come from a long line of Collins' who were an old family of Somerset/Wiltshire
in England. There was an emigration of them to Australia in the early/mid 1800s. My
g-g-grandfather, Thomas Collins married Sophia Danvers of the same area, between Bristol
and Bath, before moving to Australia.
>
> Their eldest son, my g-grandfather, was named James Carden Collins. We are not
aware of Carden existing previously. Carden has persisted as a first or middle name [it
is my middle name] ever since. It has been an ambition to find where it originated.
There is no link to a Carden in the immediate family of Thomas' wife, or with his
parents that I can find so far, but there is a family tradition of continuing surnames as
middle names.
>
> Other surnames used through my g-grandfather's generation were Danvers, Brooks,
Whittaker, Noad, Lester, Minchin, and Montgomery that seem to relate to the period before
they went to Australia. So I may be looking for a Carden link to those names. If anyone
recognises a possible link I would be very interested to know about it.
>
> The following is a story about one of those carrying the name Carden, Carden Noad
Collins. He was a son of James Carden Collins, and was born in 1876. To a New Zealander
like myself, this is a fine illustration of Australian culture. The story, set on the
Queensland coast, is as related by his wife:-
>
> "Mrs Collins remembers vividly the day a man was taken by a shark on Yeppoon
beach. His thigh muscle was torn out and although he was transported to Rockhampton
Hospital [about 45 km] the journey was too long and he died from the loss of blood.
> Mrs Collins' late husband, Carden Collins, was the man who strode out into the
surf opposite the Strand Hotel to catch the shark with a big hook baited with butchers
meat. He threw it out and it had hardly hit the water when the shark struck. Mr Collins
could not hold the line and it was only with the help of 15 or 20 men that the creature
was landed and dragged up the beach.
> Someone had an idea to sell the sharks teeth at half a crown each (25 cents) to
raise money for the widow of the casualty. However, others wanted to souvenir the shark
jaws and during the discussion in the old Myola Hall on the corner of Normanby and Hill
street a fight broke out and Mrs Collins well remembers many young men being carried out
of the hall unconscious.
> The sharks teeth were sold with the exception of one which a well-wisher carved into
a brooch and presented to the widow as a keepsake."
>
> And, incidentally, the son Carden Noad Collins, Robert James Carden Collins, died
recently near Yeppoon. I met him last year. He spent WWII in Changi Gaol in Singapore
under the Japanese. That he survived to the age of almost 85, after nearly fifty years of
very ill-health from the Singapore years was remarkable.
>
> Dave Collins
>
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