To Lynda and Diarmid
It would seem as though this family was the same as that of John of
the Bank, scion of the Earl of Breadalbane in the late 17th or early
18th century.
I think I have something for you, though its very limited and
innaccurate to some extent. I'm related to John of the Bank, via his
youngest son Alexander, whos daughter was my g-g-g mother.
At the time of the so called Breadalbane Case in 1860s there was some
correspondence between the cousins Julia Dale in Scotland and my
grandmothers mother Florence von Schoultz in Finland. Julia was
daughter of John of the Bank's eldest son John. The other John, the
one you are searching, can be a son of Colin, John of the Banks
second son.
From Julia's letters, originals deposited in the von Schoultz family
archive in the Noble House of Finland, we can read the following:
1. John, 1st Earl of Breadalbane (1635-19 March 1717)
m.1. Lady Mary Rich 17 Dec. 1657, two sons
Duncan, Lord Ormelie, and
John, later 2nd Earl
m. 2. Lady Mary Campbell, Cuntess of Caithness, daughter of
Archibald, 8th Earl and 1st Marquess of Argyll, had one son
Colin of Armaddy (2)
2. Colin of Armaddy, (1679-31 March 1709)
m. Grizelda Douglas of Kent (marriage most obviously took place, but
is not proven by reliable documents). All official documents states
'Died without lawfull issue'. However, they had one son
John (3)
3. John of the Bank, also known as John Campbell of the Citadell
(1705-1777) Writer to the Signet, First Cashier of Royal Bank of
Scotland.
m. 1. Jean Stirling, d. of Sir H. Stirling of Herbertshire, widow of
Colin Kirk
m. 2. 15 April 1751 Ann Caroline Campbell of Tofts and St Germain
(1728-1800). They had 14 children, namely
3.1. Annabella (25 Jan 1752-?)
3.2. Anne Carolina (4 Jan 1753-1803)
m. David Dale, Esq. of Rosenbank. Children
1. Anna Carolina
2. Jane Matwell, m. James Thomas Campbell
3. Mary
m. Rev'd. J. Halldane Stewart, children
1. David Dale Stewart m.Ceciana (?) Raines
2. James Haldane Stewart m. Emily Leveson Gowerty
3. Anne Erning
4. Mary Dale Stewart
3.3. John of the Citadel & of Warriston (20 Dec 1753-1829),
m. 1. Helen, d. of John Callander, Children
1. Helen
2. Caroline Jeminia
m. 2. Margareth, d. of J Campbell, Esq. of Clathick
and Colquhown, children
1. William
2. John Archibald of the Citadell, Captain of Archers
in Her Majesty's Body Guard in
North Britain
m. Emma, d. of Thomas Legh, Esq. Lyme Hall, Cheshire, children
John Archibald Legh Campbell of the Citadel
and of Helpstone
m. 3. Sophia, d. of Duncan Stewart, Esq. of Ardsheal. Children
1. Stewart Duncan
2. George James
3. Sophia Anna (? - 1835)
4. Annabella Georgina
5. Jeminia Christina (?- 1834)
6. Grace Jane (?- 1855) m. Rev'd. J. R. Hall
7. Julia Dale (?- 1886), from whos handwritten notes
(deposited in the von Schoultz
family archive in the Noble House of Helsinki) this
list has been copied.
8. Amelia Caroline
3.4. Colin (2 Nov. 1754 - 1816) Lieutenant general, Governor
of Gibraltar
m. Mary, d. of Governor Sir Guy Johnstone in Canada. Children
1. Mary
2. Guy (1st Baronet)
m. 1. Francis Elisabeth, d. of Montague Burgogne
m. 2. Pamela, d. of Lord Edward Fitzgerald, children
Fanny, m. Capt Boys Harvey
Pamela, m. Rev'd Stuart Sandford
Georgina, m. George Preston
Edward Fitzgerald, Bart. (Bact?) Col., 2nd Baronet
m. Georgina, d. of Theophilus Matcalpe. Children
Guy Theofilus 3rd Baronet, married
(unknown), Children
Edward
Charles
Guy Colin
Lucy Mary, m. Sir Selby Smythe
Madlaine, m. Percy Wyndham, M.P., 2nd son of
Lord Leconfield
Mary, m. Maj. Carlton
Frederik Augustus, m. Emma, d. of Brabugon Esq.
Emily, m. Maj. Ellis
Julia, m. Capt.s Freemantle
3. Caroline, m. Lord Malpas, Marquess of Colmondelly
4. John, m. Clementine, d. of M. de Ber (Is this
the John you are investigating?)
5. William, m. Anna Maria, d. of Sir Frances Vincent Bart
6. Mary Isabella Caroline, m. Don Andres de Silva
(son of Duke D'Hijas, Granduc of
Spain since succeeded to title of Duc D'Aceaga)
7. Colin, m. Beatrice, d. of Lord Torrington
8. James Thomas, m. Jane Mathwell, d. of David Dale
9. Anabella, m. Rev'd William Tudors
10. Fredrik
11. Julia
3.5. James (1755-1817)
m. d. of Sir James Campbell, Baronet of Inverniel (?),
Governor General of India. Children
John Archinbald Cornwallis
3.6. Christina (6 Aug 1758 - 1833)
3.7. Catherine (6 March 1760 - 1827), m. John Yule Esq.
3.8. Patrik (24 June 1761 - 1800)
3.9. Jean (21 Aug 1726 - 1818)
3.10. Allan (1 July 1764 - 1820)
3.11. Wilhelmina (6 Oct 1765 - 1770)
3.12. Mary (6 Oct 1765 - 1817)
m. ?? Campbell of Barcaldine, children
1. Peter Duncan, Baronet,
m. Mary d. of Denniston of Denniston, children
Alexander
Margret
Mary
3.13. Archibald (28 May 1767 - 1831)
3.14. Alexander (20 Feb 1770 - 1821 Calcutta)
m. 1811 Mary, d. of Simon Frazer of Fairfield,
Invernesshire (1785? - 1843 (4?) in
Heidelberg), children
Ann (1813 -1862)
m. Nils Gustafvon Schoultz (1807-1834), children
Florence, m. Carl Fredrik von Schoultz, children
Carin, m. Axel Leonard von
Weissenberg, 5 children
Daniel Runo Alexander, m. Eva
Reinius, 6 children,
Tom Bernhard v. W
Anne, m. Admiral Hampus Furuhjelm, Governor
General of Alaska
Mary (1817-1863)
m. 1. (1844) Simon Frazer of Hannay, children
Leignelay Cuthbert (1847-1854)
Ormelie Campbell (1847-1901)
m. (23 Dec. 1848 in Assam) Augusta Mussay, children
Robert (? - 1902 or 3)
Charles Gordon (1859 - ?)
m. 2. Charles Hohoy
If you live in the UK you can go to any larger library and look up
"Burke's
Baronetage and Peerage" under Campbell and look for the Sir Guy who died
recently and it should give you what information is now available.
My foto copies of Burkes 1955 edition mentions nothing about John of
the Bank or his descendants. John was a son of a marriage which did
not exist, at least it could not be proven, hence his line is
non-existent for Burke. When it comes to Colin of Armaddy, Johns
father, all records states that he died without lawfull issue. For
John of the Bank, all records acknowledges him as descendant of the
noble house of Breadalbane. Not a word of the actual parents,
though. It's interesting to hear that
The present head of the family is attempting to have the marriage of
Jon's parrents proven.
May be you Diarmid can tell us more about the present recognized
chief of that branch, and his initiative.
John founded the (Royal?) Bank of Scotland I believe and was
comemmorated in a pamphlet put out by the bank only a few years ago
- he also appeared on a Scottish bank note.
The bank is indeed called The Royal Bank of Scotland, the 'new bank',
still existing, not to be mixed with the 'old' one, i.e. Bank of
Scotland founded 50 years earlier. The old bank was considered too
Jacobite, and the new bank was for political reasons established as a
Hannoverian bank, hence the 'Royal' in the name.
John himself did not found the bank, but it was strongly supported by
Earl of Argyll and his half-uncle John, Earl of Ilay, later the 2nd
Earl of Breadalbane. Both, and later the 3rd Earl were all bigtime
clients of the bank, and our John managed the accounts of his
benefactors.
There is the pamphlet, a transcript of his diary covering the period
when Bonnie Prince Charles resided in Edinburgh and needed cash to
pay his troops. John provided huge amounts in silver and gold coins
to the jacobite enemy from the hannoverian bank's vault, temporarily
in the secure cellars of Edinburgh Castle. Most exiting reading, and
how he survived is a mystery. Another mystery is that 1749 he had
William Mossman to paint a portrait of him. It still hangs in the
Board Room of RBS, and is reproduced on the cover of the Diary. It
shows him in a magnificent red Highland dress, four years after the
Culloden, when anything Scottish like the kilt or the bagpipe (may be
also the haggis ;-) was strictly banned.
I have an idea that they are listed under Campbells of Riverbank or
Under River or some such name.
Of that I have no knowledge
> John Campbell, C.B., Lieutenant 42nd Highlanders, d.
Marseilles, France,
> March 31, 1841. Fought at Battle of Waterloo. Brother of Sir Guy Campbell,
> Baronet. John's son, Horatio Guy Campbell b. 1837, Royal Marines,
Portsmouth,
> England, d. 1871 London. Horatio's son, Horatio Guy Campbell Horner b.
> 1867 London, d. 1925 London, also sister Selina Campbell Horner b. 1869.
> Please contact me if you have any information on any of these Campbells.
My understanding is that it is possible that your John is the
brother of Guy, 1st Baronet, both sons of Colin Campbell (born 2
Nov. 1754 - died 1816). John was the fourth kid in the family,
probably born sometimes around or after 1780 and could have been
something like 30-35 yrs of age at the time of Battle of Waterloo in
June 1815. It is possible it fits in. Can you check if John was
marriued to Clementine de Ber. Also, it should'nt be too complicated
to find a biography of Colin, a Matricel of Gov. Generals, or in a
'Who is Who in the Brittish Imperium' . May be some further info
could be found about the family....?
Best regards from the Philippines
Tom
--
Tom von Weissenberg
Credit Adviser, Cebu, Philippines
cellphone +63 917 3209163
e-mail (permanent) tom.von.weissenberg(a)iki.fi