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Annie,
I don't have info on your line, but my James Seaborn had a son named
Elijah Malone, called "Lone". He was my father's great-great uncle and
I remember him talking about an "Uncle Lone". Al just mentioned his
grandfather with
a similar name. Wonder where the name originated?
Carole
Rick,
Thanks for the tip - I just sent them the info about John. I'll
keep you posted if the History Detectives are interested!
Carole
On Sep 25, 2006, at 2:00 PM, 3X2389(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
> Carole
>
> Check the history detectives on pbs. They have solved some hard
> cases. This job wOuld be right up their alley.
Well,
Should have known better, but who'd have thought that both
archives would be closed on a Monday? I moved heaven and
earth to drive to Morrow this morning only to find locked doors.
The guard at the GA Archives told me it has always been closed
on Mondays. Guess I've never tried to do that before.
If the National Archives manages to cut hours will that mean
that the SE division in Morrow will be open less than it now
is? It is a huge, beautiful building. Why spend all of that
money just to lock the doors?????
I will attempt to return to Morrow on Wednesday to see if I
can find any payment records for John Camp.
As Al pointed out, Dwight Allen did once post that all was
not what it appeared with John Camp's treason accusation.
Elizabeth Anthony sent notations from the _Roster of
South Carolina Patriots in the American Revolution_
by Bobby Gilmer Moss that indicate that:
John Camp served under Col. Roebuck. A.A.1014;
X3424; C.S.
Thomas Camp enlisted in the Fourth Regiment on 14 February 1776. N.A.
853.
John Kemp enlisted in the Fifth Regiment on 2 April 1776. N.A.853
I don't know what the letters and numbers are at the end of the
notations. Al suggested that we might find records of the enlistment
of John in SC records. Also, going back to Al's post regarding
Dwight Allen's information - if the page was torn from the record
book, would there be another record somewhere else? If someone
was found guilty of treason against the federal government, wouldn't
there be a record on that level?
I think it is time to find a professional experienced in the RW.
Depending
on the cost, I will consider paying for it. I am attempting to contact
Dr. Moss and Dr. Pruitt. Anyone know of any others?
Carole
Carole,
I also believe that "Big-Headed" John, being the forever pioneer, went onto Texas after his wife died, and that Winnie Maddox Camp is probably buried in that cemetery. But, from my earliest childhood recollections (1940's), when those trees were small saplings and the whole plot was covered in English ivy, and before any of the graves were disturbed, Seaborn's marker was the only "modern" one, and had the only legible inscriptions (we didn't know about soaping, etching, etc.), and it was already cracked. The old road (dirt) ran just on the south side of the cemetery, with W. W. Camp's old house site being just across the road. I'm certain that my father had not a clue as to whom other than Seaborn was buried there, and beginning with W. W., all family burials were in the Jonesboro City Cemetery (that being before Dad was born and after his family had moved to town).
Al Camp
Fayetteville, GA
Again, folks, if you can find the archived late 1990's-era postings by Dwight G. Allen on the John Camp/DAR saga, he had the whole story well researched/explained. He lived in Hendersonville, NC and spent a great deal of effort ferreting-out the details. I'm afraid he has passed-on now, however, as he stopped posting or answering direct emails several years ago. I think he also sent his writings to the old Camp Bulletin.
My recollection is, however, that the bottom-line was that in the "heat" of post-RW frontier Carolina, John and others were convicted of being Tories from false accusations and John's land was ordered to be confiscated. But, as time passed and cooler heads prevailed, his land was never confiscated and eventually he sold it, as shown by deed records. He and others were cleared of the charges, but Dwight found that the page of the court records, where John's conviction reversal should have been, had been torn out. Suspicion was that whoever brought the accusations and/or their descendents were probably the culprits in the court records' destruction also. Except for the entertainment value, I think it's useless to dwell on all of that again, particularly if Kenneth Thomas found the "brass ring" in the form of Federal pension "payment" records. I also think our John's service would be with the South Carolina militia and not the Continental Line, although they all came to North Carolina from Virginia after Thomas III's first wife died.
Al Camp
Fayetteville, GA
Eagle-eyed history buffs will have spotted an anachronistic (and incorrect) date in my posting yesterday about Camps in Rutherford County, N.C., confiscation-treason cases.
The date on which John Camp is claimed to have taken a commission in the King's Army is Sept. 10, 1780 (not 1789 as I wrote, a typo for which I apologize).
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Rick,
I can assure you, without question, that DAR would not close a line because too many members have applied under a certain ancestor. I am a Registrar and it is my job to do applications. I have a booklet of instructions. No where does it say that and no one has ever been turned down, to my knowledge, for that reason.
Judith Arthur
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I just located a snail address for Dr. Pruitt and have written him a
letter
along with a check to purchase the book Cragg told us about.
He has written a huge number of books covering a boat load of records
for NC and TN. Possibly he can point us in the right direction to
resolve
this once and for all, or maybe he is for hire and can resolve it for
us.
It is obvious he has experience with NC colonial records.
If John really was a traitor, I'll just have to accept it - but I'll
go down
swingin',
Carole
Cragg,
Thanks for sending this. I still want to see this out even if the
results
are not what I would like. There were a lot of John Camps, but even
I have to admit that the location of the Second Broad River will
certainly zero in on my John Camp's location.
One thing that does stand out. I wonder if the Grandshaw Camp
was supposed to be Crenshaw. If that is the case, wasn't Crenshaw
the youngest son of Thomas and Margaret?
I am planning to go to the National Archives branch in Morrow on
Monday, just to see what I can find.
Maybe it is just stubbornness, but I still can't see how John would have
been accepted in polite society, if he had really been a traitor. Word
would have certainly spread to the area of SC they moved to after
the RW - which isn't that far from the home place in NC.
It is good to hear from you again, Cragg - still the world traveler?
With your resources, where do you think we should proceed from
here?
Carole
Hi All:
I have been following the recent Camp postings with interest and am just
hopeful that someone may have information regarding my line. I am descended
from William A. Camp (Wedowee, Alabama) who was the son of J. J. Camp (a
preacher/minister in the same area). My William A. Camp is buried at
Forrester's Cemetery in Alabama. He had several children, the second oldest
was my grandfather, Alonzo/Alonza Camp who went by the name of "Lonnie" and
married Cora Duncan. They had four children, Mozelle (my grandmother), Ira,
Emma and another sister whose name I cannot recall (I am in INdiana as I
write this and all my genealogical materal is at home). To my mother's
knowledge it is the un-named sister who survived into adulthood, married and
would have one child.
Lonnie, Cora and Emma are all buried at the Forrester's Cemetery in
Wedowee, Alabama as well -- it appears that they may have died during the
1918 flu epidemic.
I do know that the eldest son or William A. Camp was Littleberry or
Greenberry Camp and that William had many other children some of whom made
their way to Texas.
If anyone might have info on this line I would truly appreciate it - I seem
to have run into a brick wall. We do know that J. J. Camp is buried in
Alabama as well although, again, my information is all back home in Rhode
Island and I cannot recall the cemetery but I believe it is a Methodist
Cemetery -- I do have photos of his gravesite.
Thanks a million
Annie in Rhode Island
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Perry" <3x2389(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <CAMP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMP-L] Our web site
> How is John Walton a Camp. Did you know you might be a Camp if you are
> related to Jeff Foxworthy. I wonder when he bought the land in Pine Mt Ga
> from the Callaway Garden folks, he was buying it from a cousin kinda. My
> dad's first cousin Beth Walton grew up with and married Bo Callaway. From
> what I am told Jeff and my line come from Lt John Camp and Mary Tarpley.
>
> Lt John Camp
> Wm "Snipes" Camp
> Littleberry Camp
> Major TB Camp
> Ophelia Camp m Ben T Perry ( dad and Beth Callaway grandmom)
>
> I wonder if Beth Walton Callaway and John Walton are double cousins if he
> is a Camp that is.
>
> Barbara thanks for the website.
>
>
> Rick Perry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KPSB2(a)aol.com>
> To: <CAMP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAMP-L] Our web site
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/19/2005 8:06:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> tfarris268(a)comcast.net writes:
>>
>> http://carriecampmemoriallibrary.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Barbara, for the good reminder.
>> Asenath Camp's direct descendant. + don't forget John Walton. Hey does
>> that mean I get a discount at Walmart?
>> Kelly Pritchard
>>
>>
>
>
>
Actually, for that it's worth, "Big-Headed" John Camp went to Smith County, TX *before* the Civil War, in 1856 (age 71), with three daughters and their families. They were: Mary Ann (2nd daughter, 5th child), m. Whitmill Allen; T. "Tommie" (3rd daughter, 7th child), m. Lewis Sparkman; and Nancy (4th daughter, 8th child), m. Miles Moseley. This is according to the "family history" written early 1930's by "Big-Headed" John's grandson, Alonza Allen "Lon" Camp, Sr., my grandfather. Several years ago, descendents of the daughters posted on this list in search of John's gravesite. They had located their Allen/Sparkman/Moseley ancestors' graves in a church cemetery near Tyler, TX, but no "Big-Headed"John. Lon Camp said John died in Texas and was buried there. I don't recall the name(s) of the Texas descendent(s) who posted, but wish they would "come forth" again.
Al Camp
Fayetteville, GA
P. S.
A clue to the "Big-Headed" nickname might be the large-size hats worn by my father, uncles, and me, 7 3/4 Long Oval. My son's main distinguishing feature in the delivery room was his relatively huge head.
Margaret,
Not that I know of. I recall something on this list a few years
back that it was his half-siblings who made the accusation,
but I don't have proof.
Carole
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:08 AM, Margaret L. Sopp wrote:
> Carole:
>
> Have any descendants contacted the DAR and requested copies of the
> "documentation" that was used to discredit John?
>
> Margaret
>
All DAR members have access to the Patriotic Index on-line. It has been
there for several years now. Also, there is the new Research on e-membership
for Registrars which gives more information. I have to tell you that the
entries for John Camp just say that the service has to be proven. They don't say
anything about treason, but that seems to be the reason because you all have
encountered that.
Proof is what is needed.
Judy Arthur
Lora,
The registrars of each chapter can check online and find out if a line is closed. This is a new service made possible by volunteers who digitize the old applications. Maybe someday they will all be available to chapters online.
Mary
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorabusha(a)aol.com
To: camp(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMP] CAMP Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7
Judith,
I have talked with my registrar regarding this issue and would like to know
what you think.
John Camp is not the only line that is closed, I am sure you have lots of
them.
Sometime in the future it would be great if National would have on line or
some other way we could check and see if a line is open or not or the Registrar
could check.
This would save so much time for all of us.
I spent a lot of time and effort along with several meetings with my
Registrar at our local library going over all this paperwork and all that time
was
wasted, along with the fees.
My Registrar also could have been working with someone else.
I work in banking and there is nothing I can't find or located when I
register people to work in security, everything is online, where someone is
registered to sell is at the touch of a button.
Thanks,
Lora
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Lora,
Thanks. Now we know what we are dealing with. Does anyone have the Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions Book number and page? Can anyone give us exactly what the record shows? Any Camp Listers who live in Rutherford County NC and would be willing to look it up?
Mary
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorabusha(a)aol.com
To: camp(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMP] John Camp
Mary,
My application was rejected in 2004.
In first form type letter the reason given was no proven service supporting
American Independence for Thomas Camp and line closed for son John Camp.
I sent a letter to National to explain further and then received two letters
dated April 26, 2004 listing the reason for rejection as treason.
John Camp was charged to answer for treason, felony and forfeiture of
property.
Thomas Camp, evidence shows that the Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions of
Rutherford Co NC allowed the verdict of guilty of treason. His land and that
of some of his children was confiscated. The service you cited has been
disproved many years ago.
This is a direct quote from my letters from DAR, which I have now found all
of them.
Rutherford Co is in NC.
I am a descendant of Thomas Camp and Winifred Starling.
As you know all people who went into the DAR before this issue came up are
still OK, they just will not at this time let any more people in unless someone
can give them proof that they will except.
I think we will need a Sherlock Holmes to solve this case.
Lora
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Not having proof is a far cry from charges of treason by an organization.
Where's the proof the organization (i.e. DAR) has for saying this was the
John CAMP that was charged with treason or even that there was one?
Good job of whitewashing the organization, though.
Elaine Blackman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana White" <dkwhite(a)charter.net>
To: <camp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 09/21/2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [CAMP] John Camp
> Over the years, DAR has developed a more stringent criteria for acceptance
> of applications. Early applications did not have to meet the higher
> standards of genealogical proof that is required today. This greater
> emphasis on documentary proof is not just for membershhip in DAR but for
> most hereditary societies. Also, genealogists today must meet higher
> standards than in the past.
>
> The John Camp questions involved actual proof of service, either military
> or
> patriotic. It appears that at least some of the accepted applications were
> based on his having received a land grant in what is now Rutherford
> County,
> NC. Just because someone received a land grant did not constitute proof of
> service. I do not know the particulars of the grant given to John Camp,
> but
> am making a general statement concerning land grants. Some people often
> believed that if someone received a land grant in Georgia, it meant that
> he
> had served in the Revolution. That is not the case if one reads the
> introduction to the book on Georgia Land Grants. I believe the same
> applies
> to the North Carolina Grants in Tennessee.
>
> It is probable that the line would be reopened if there is documentary
> proof
> of his service and proof that the treason charges were dropped or he was
> found not guilty if tried.
>
> DAR is not trying to eliminate potential members, but they want to make
> the
> records as accurate as possible. That does not mean that the John Camp
> line
> will never be reopened. It means that the higher genealogical standards of
> today will help insure accurate lines.
>
> In the past, much of our genealogy was based on legend and lore. One of my
> friends wanted her daughter to enter DAR on her father's ancestry. An old
> genealogy had named the ancestor who came and his descendants, of whom
> several were DAR members. My friend submitted her daughter's application
> to
> have it rejected and the line closed because of the conflicting documents.
> After more extensive research in county records, she found documents that
> proved beyond a doubt that her research was correct and the old
> information
> was wrong. DAR re-opened the line using her research as the proof. The
> issue
> was not the service of the ancestor but the confusion as to the
> descendants,
> etc.
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CAMP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Judith,
I have talked with my registrar regarding this issue and would like to know
what you think.
John Camp is not the only line that is closed, I am sure you have lots of
them.
Sometime in the future it would be great if National would have on line or
some other way we could check and see if a line is open or not or the Registrar
could check.
This would save so much time for all of us.
I spent a lot of time and effort along with several meetings with my
Registrar at our local library going over all this paperwork and all that time was
wasted, along with the fees.
My Registrar also could have been working with someone else.
I work in banking and there is nothing I can't find or located when I
register people to work in security, everything is online, where someone is
registered to sell is at the touch of a button.
Thanks,
Lora
Mary,
My application was rejected in 2004.
In first form type letter the reason given was no proven service supporting
American Independence for Thomas Camp and line closed for son John Camp.
I sent a letter to National to explain further and then received two letters
dated April 26, 2004 listing the reason for rejection as treason.
John Camp was charged to answer for treason, felony and forfeiture of
property.
Thomas Camp, evidence shows that the Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions of
Rutherford Co NC allowed the verdict of guilty of treason. His land and that
of some of his children was confiscated. The service you cited has been
disproved many years ago.
This is a direct quote from my letters from DAR, which I have now found all
of them.
Rutherford Co is in NC.
I am a descendant of Thomas Camp and Winifred Starling.
As you know all people who went into the DAR before this issue came up are
still OK, they just will not at this time let any more people in unless someone
can give them proof that they will except.
I think we will need a Sherlock Holmes to solve this case.
Lora
Margaret,
Thank you for this information. I've just sent an email,
as I am certain others have. I had also thought that
this chapter is closed.
This is great! All of this information and co-operation
will help us get to the bottom of the story, one way or
another. If the line is closed, at least we will have
a real reason as to why. The women at the chapter
I am attempting to join told me that they have had
success in having new members admitted after
opening closed lines. I would like to do as much
independent research as possible before submitting
my application, especially knowing that John's line
hasn't been allowed.
Thanks everyone!
Carole Camp Johnson