I am a descendant of Lydia Calvert, daughter of William Calvert, whom I
understand was the
son of Leonard Calvert. Lydia married Archibald Bigbee, son of Geoge Bigbee
and
Mary Calvert.
Who was this Mary Calvert, and what is the
Society of the Ark and the Dove?
Helen
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Edwin Bell" <daipdq(a)juno.com>
To: <CALVERT-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CALVERT] Re: Mary Calvert, sister of George and daughter of
Leonard
joanne,
i am not real formal about all of this calvert stuff. my mother was a
calvert. there was a calvert role in our family that existed up until it
was passed
to one of arthurs(my grandfather) brothers. boy. would i like to
have
what was written--recorded from records, bibles etc. it has
disappeared in
the last 70 years. Mom used to steal into arthurs trunk to read it.
i do not know if i will ever figure this out.
IF mary existed, and I personally believe she did, then there must be
documentation
somewhere that demonstrates it. even if it is not known.
This is the same way
re: the family that is out of Ireland. I personally believe that one
of leonards issue went to ireland to manage the two calvert holdings
there. it only
makes sense. that it is not documented may be true. I know
you have commented on this before....once to a fellow whose aged feelings
were hurt because she though you took umbrage with her. i told her that you
were just asking questions that needed to be asked.
But if you wish to understand history, then i think you must agree that if
Leonard
and george had holdings in Ireland, then they would have ensured
that a member of the family controlled the interest. who knows.I just doubt
that with George exploring Avalon and then MD, even if he wasn't directly
involved in the MD colony, that they would relinquish such large holdings so
close to home to someone outside the family. that follows the basic tenets
of power and influence. So, when these folk who believe john to be son of
leonard, i take it with a grain of common sense salt that it must be
connected somehow...even with no documentation that proves it.
when we examine how life was prior to our modern world, children were the
means to
access of power and influence, holding what you had, even on a
small farm. men took other wives in order to have chidlren, especially male
issue in order to farm the smallest of farms. I doubt Leonard would marry
twice and not have issue, even if unable to have children himself. most men
would have figured out how to come up with a child who would inherit
regardless of emotional feelings(a twentieth century mystique?).
I have no ties to MD or the calverts personally(well, that is only
partially true.
i knew one of the docents at riversdale...high school
sweetheart that i lost twice in my life.... I just was an history
student for BA and amateur afterwards. when mom quit researching i
took it
over and found it to at least keep my troubled brain at bay. What I do
believe is the following: Once in America with such a vast land at the edges
of civilization, families allied and associated and made a
common migration. they end up time after time in the next over the
mountain place to settle. they intermarry over and over. different families
associate and get on board. I believe this was true the england at the time
as well. it wasn't as highly cultured as we would
imagine.
my jesuit fathers instructed me in this social history, what, 35 years
ago. I took every course i could, read every book, even russian, german
and french
history besides the obvious. a common pattern emerges. Where you
hold territory, you put a relative to rule it or you lose it. Leonard would
have had a son in Ireland. I have no doubt about that. What happened
in
the intervening time is at issue, but that is documentaiton and reocrds
which are sorely lacking for the era.
I hope you take this with no apprehension. it only makes sense to me.after
all, i
have had to deal with the most recent discovery on the
maternal(calvert) side, which indicates, oh, heavens, shall i say it?
Lawson Laughlin Spurlock = TN hawkins co. MELUNGEON. Sheesh.
regards to you.
david
--- Joanne Yundt Calvert <ladybaltimore(a)comcast.net> wrote:
David,
I appreciate you taking time with this. Being the George line, Mary is a
side interest. it's because one of our friends always claimed that he was
eligible for The Society of the Ark andThe Dave (my husband being a past
governor)and finally showed us his lineage papers that his mother had
done.
He comes from the Mary Calvert-Isaac Chapline marriage, so is not
eligible
for The Ark and The Dove, but probably for FFV as they arrived in Virginia
in the very early 1600's.
Still, I am having a hard time with accepting George had any siblings.
Joanne Calvert
----- Original Message -----
From: <daipdq(a)juno.com>
To: <CALVERT-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:15 PM
Subject: [CALVERT] Re: Mary Calvert, sister of George and daughter of
Leonard
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Surnames: calvert chapline
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/WQH.2ACEB/996.4
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> Joanne
>
> I somehow goofed my previous reply and am posting it again.
> I spent some time looking at UK parish and probate records and came up
with nothing. however, there are many references to this Mary, including
so.
md online. no documentation. however, i found many references to an
isaac
chapline who married a mary calvert b 1586(right time frame) and he
migrated
to charles city area and founded chaplin(e)s
> choice. I think these references to isaac and mary pertinent and we
ought
be able to find some english documentation of this marriage and
perhaps
even
more related to mary herself.
>
> At least if you have references to such a marriage, he being born near
where Kiplin hall was erected and she at Bolton Castle there must be more
evidence somewhere in books
> or english documentation that i was not able to find at my
> first perusal. I will continue to keep this in mind.
>
> thanks again for your kindly assistance,
> David bell
> sorry for the two earlier msg reply snafu's.....dai
>
>
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