Carole,
Thank you for your very thorough and attentive email. I sometimes
get frustrated with responses and the lack of detail, but your email
was a great example of caring enough to give a good response.
That is too bad about the John C. Cagle book; I live in Salt Lake
City, and if you would like, I can go to the FHL and copy the book
(take photos with my digital camera).
As far as Lucy's place of birth, I looked back at my sources and
discovered that a secondary source, another researcher, gave me the
info that the NC 1850 census gives her place of birth as Moore, NC;
when I went to
ancestry.com, I noticed that the Lucy who was in the
census of 1850 was only 15, and she was a child of George and
Maranda. So that information is not correct, and I appreciate you
bringing it to my attention. If it would not be too much trouble, I
would love to have an email copy of the deeds.
I will try to visit the FHL this week or weekend; let me know if
there is anything specific other than the book, that you would like
me to check on.
Kim
On May 20, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Carole Cook wrote:
Kimberly and David,
A few years ago I saw John G. Cagle's books at the Family History
Library in
Salt Lake City. As a result I contacted John G. Cagle and asked if
he had
any more copies of The Cagle Family in the South to 1850: North
Carolina.
He said he did. He said the cost was $50.00 which would include
shipping.
I sent him a check for $50.00. The check was cashed, but the book
never did
arrive. I wrote to him twice telling him I had never received the
book. My
letters were never answered. I tried contacting him by phone and
know I was
calling the correct number because I had contacted him by phone
before. No
one ever answered the phone, even though I called several times.
A microfilm of this book can be ordered from the Family History
Library in
Salt Lake City. I will order it tomorrow. If I remember correctly, the
statement is made in this book that the John Cagle who married Lucy is
thought to be the son of Charles Cagle. As early as 9 November 1783,
this
Charles Cagle was in the part of Mecklenburg Co., NC that became
Cabarrus
Co., NC in 1792. He was very likely there earlier, since 9 November
1783 is
when he received a land grant.
If I remember correctly, there is information about John Cagle's
death in
the book mentioned above by John G. Cagle. It seems like it
mentioned his
children, but I will have to check that out when the microfilm
arrives. I
am going to be away from home from May 26th through June 13th, so the
film
will probably arrive while I am gone, but I will look at it on the
18th of
June, if it is here.
My interest in John Cagle and his wife Lucy is Lucy. I have wondered
if she
could have been a daughter of Sebastian Hagler, since John's property in
South Carolina was near Sebastian Hagler's land. Also John was a
witness
about 15 months later when Paul Hagler was buying land which was also
near
Sebastian Hagler. These deeds do not have Sebastian Hagler's name on
them,
but I have studied the geography of the area and know the Cagles and the
Haglers lived near each other. So either John was still in the area
or he
made a trip back to the area to be a witness.
If I remember correctly, there is some indication given as to where John
Cagle moved after leaving South Carolina. As I remember John G. Cagle's
book does not mention that John ever lived in South Carolina, but the
age of
the John Cagle, who was married to Lucy, is right to make it the same
couple. Lucy was not a common name at that time, and I have not come
across
any other John Cagle with a wife named Lucy.
I have an ancestress named Elizabeth Hagler, born 1772 or 1773, which
is the
right age to have been the daughter of Sebastian Hagler. I have not
been
able to determine who her parents were. I have ruled out some people
but
there are still four possibilities. I think the only way I am going
to be
able to determine the right parents will be through the testing of
mitochondrial DNA.
My Elizabeth Hagler had nine or ten sons but only two daughters:
Barbara and
Catherine. I have followed the all-mother-to-daughter descendants from
Barbara and Catherine. Catherine's line ran out of females, but I have
found four living females so far that could be tested from Barbara's
line.
I am now trying to find living females from all-mother-to-daughter
descendants from the four possible mothers. I hope to compare their DNA
with the DNA of the females from Barbara's line. This would show
which of
the four had a common female ancestor with the females from Barbara's
line.
I have actual names to start with for three of the four lines. I know
Sebastian had daughters but I do not know the given names of any of
them and
I do not know the names of their spouses. So I am looking at Lucy as a
possibility. I don't remember if John G. Cagle's book mentioned above
indicated any daughters for John and Lucy. I was hoping someone out
there
would have the book and be able to tell me. I was not looking at the
possibility of having DNA testing done at the time I was looking at
the book
a few years ago.
Kimberly, I noticed you said Lucy was born in Moore Co., NC. What is
the
source of this information? I do not know where Sebastian lived
before his
arrival in Lancaster Co., SC. I do know he was there as early as 1764.
That is when he bought a tract of land from Isaac Weidner. Isaac owned
other land and remained in the area for the rest of his life.
My Elizabeth Hagler married George Christman in about 1788; George
was born
in 1765 on Dutch Buffalo Creek in the part of Mecklenburg Co., NC that
became Cabarrus Co., NC in 1792. George Christman's brother Michael
Christman, Jr. married Elizabeth Weidner the daughter of Isaac
Weidner, so
it is not improbable that George married one of Sebastian's daughters.
Kimberly, I'll repeat my question which I hope you can answer: What
is the
source of your information that Lucy was born in Moore Co., NC?
Deed: (A little of the formatting has been lost by copying and pasting
rather than sending the deed as an attachment.)
!1796 LAND: SC, Lancaster Co, Register of Mesne Conveyance (Main
Author),
DEEDS, 1787-1867; INDEX TO DEEDS, 1767-1937, Microfilm # 0,024,054,
Book D,
p. 182. Photocopied 19 July 2002 by CICC at FHL in SLC; transcribed 4
August
2002 by CICC.
"(March 11, 1797) This Indenture made the 6th day of Sepr. In the
year of
our Lord one thousand seven hundred & ninety six Between John Cagle &
Lucy
his Wife of South Carolina Lancaster county of the one part and Jacob
Hagler
of South Carolina and Lancaster county of the other part Witnesseth that
they the said John Cagle & Lucy his Wife for and in consideration of
the sum
of thirty pounds sterling to him in hand paid the receipt of whtch
(sic) He
doth hereby acknowledge. Hath bargained sold aliened ? [enfeoffed ?] &
confirmed and do by these presents bargain sell alien ? [enfeoff ?] &
confirm unto the said Jacob Hagler his heirs and Assigns forever one
certain
tract or parcel of land containing fifty acres more or less Situate
on the
West side of Big Lynches Creek beginning at a Hickory on the west
side of
side (sic) of (sic) said creek thence N 75 poles to a White Oak
thence along
Haglers line to the said creek, thence down the said creek to ?
[Pates ? I
wonder if this is an abbreviation for patentee.] lower line, & from
thence
W. To the beginning and hath such shapes and marks as is represented
by a
plat annexed to a Grant bearing Date one thousand seven hundred and
fifty
James McManus being the Patentee Which said tract of land with all the
tenements hereditaments & every & singular the appurtenances thereunto
belonging To have and to hold unto the said Jacob Hagler his heirs and
assigns forever and the said John Cagle and Lucy his Wife them their
heirs
or assigns doth forever engage to defend the title of the aforesaid
bargained premises to the said Jacob Hagler his heirs & assigns
against the
claim of all manner of person or persons and doth further promise to
make
any lawful right to the said land as shall be thought necessary
hereafter by
the said John Cagle for the more surety of conveyance of the above
tract of
land if requested In Witness whereof the said John Cagle & Lucy his wife
hath set their hands and seals the date above written. Signed &
delivered in
presence of us
Charles McManus John Cagle's X Mark Seal
Leonard Cagle's X Mark Lucy Cagles X Mark Seal
South Carolina Lancaster county Personally appeared Charles McManus
before
me & was duly sworn saith that he saw John Cagle & Lucy his wife sign
seal &
deliver the within instrument of Writing to Jacob Hagler for the use &
intent set forth and further saith that he saw Leonard Cagle sign with
himself as a Subscribing Witness Sworn to before me this 6th day of
Sepr.
1796
John Welsh J. P. Charles McManus"
SUMMARY: 6 September 1796 Deed: John & Lucy Cagle to Jacob Hagler,
both of
Lancaster Co., SC; 50 acres on west side of Big Lynches Creek in
Lancaster
Co., SC, "beginning at a Hickory on the west side of side (sic) of (sic)
said creek thence N 75 poles to a White Oak thence along
Haglers line to the said creek, thence down the said creek to ?
[Pates ? I
wonder if this is an abbreviation for patentee.] lower line, & from
thence
W. To the beginning and hath such shapes and marks as is represented
by a
plat annexed to a Grant bearing Date one thousand seven hundred and
fifty
James McManus being the Patentee ;" witnesses: Charles McManus & Leonard
Cagle; neighbors: own land or Boston Haglers land? & McManus land?
Proven: 6
September 1796 by Charles McManus, before John Welsh, J. P. Recorded: 11
March 1797.
Deed: (The formatting is a little different on this deed also.)
!1798 LAND: SC, Lancaster Co., Register of Mesne Conveyance (Main
Author),
DEEDS, 17871867; INDEX TO DEEDS,1767-1937, Microfilm #0,024,055, Book
F, p.
211. Photocopied 19 July 2002 by CICC at FHL in SLC; transcribed 6
August
2002 by CICC.
This Indenture made the ninth day of January, one thousand seven
hundred and
ninety eight Between Jacob Englet and Catharine Englet of the County of
Lancaster and State of South Carolina of the one part and and (sic) Paul
Hagler of the same place of the other part Witnesseth that the ?
[said ?]
Jacob Englet and Catharine Englet for and in consideration of the sum
of ?
[th . .?] two pounds to them in hand paid the receipt of which ? doth
hereby
acknowledge hath Bargained sold aliened ? [Enfeoffed ?] and confirmed
and do
by these presents bargain, sell, alien ? [Enfeoff ?] & confirm unto
the said
Paul Hagler heirs and assigns forever one certain parcel or Tract of
land
containing ? hundred and fifty acres situate in the District of
Camden on a
a branch of ? [Turkey? or Tuckey ?] hoe, Waters of linches Creek
Beginning
on a pine Running N 74 to a pine ? [station?' E 38 .. 73 to Black Oak S
168.38. .73 to a post oak corner S 74 W . 38 .. 73 . To a stake
thence to
the beginning, having such shapes forms and marks as are represented
by a
plat annexed to a grant bearing date ? [apri ?] the third one
thousand seven
hundred and eighty six in the tenth year of the Independence, Andrew
Englet
being the patentee, Together with ? [all ?] trees, water, water courses,
profits, commodities appurtenances & ? whatsoever thereunto belonging to
have and to hold the said tract of one hundred and fifty acres of
land and
all the said singular other ? [premises ?] hereby granted unto the
said Paul
Hagler his heirs and assigns forever and the said Jacob Englet and
Catharine
Englet for themselves their heirs Excrs. admrs. or assigns doth
forever ?
[engage ?] and warrant to Defend the title of the said land to the
said Paul
Hagler his heirs and assigns against the claim of all manner of Persons
whatsoever---In Witness whereof the said Jacob Englet & Catharine Englet
hath hereunto set their hands and seals the date above mentioned
signed sealed and delivered in presents of
his his
Charles McManus John Cagle Jacob X Englet
mark mark
her
Catharine X Englet
mark
South Carolina Personally appeared Charles McManus before me and after
being duly
Lancaster District sworn saith that he was present and saw Jacob Englet
& Catharine Englet sign seal and deliver the within instrument of
writing to
Paul Hagler as their act and deed & further saith that John Cagle did
assign
as a subscribing witness to the same with himself sworn to before me
this
30th day of ? [July ?] 1803
John Welsh J. P. Charles McManus Recorded October 29th 1804
SUMMARY: 9 January 1798 Deed: Jacob & Catharine Englet to Paul
Hagler, both
of Lancaster Co., SC, for ?2 [32 ?] pounds, 150 A. on a branch of
Turkey hoe
or Tuckey hoe, waters of Lynches Creek in Lancaster Co., SC; same as
shown
by a plat annexed to a grant ? [April ?] 3, 1786 to Andrew Englet;
witnesses: Charles McManus & John Cagle; neighbors: none listed;
proved: 30
? [July `1] 1803 by Charles McManus; recorded 29 October 1804.
Kimberly, if you would like me to send a copy of each deed as an
attachment
to your e-mail address, I will do that.
Carole
(Carole Irene Crismon Cook)
-----Original Message-----
From: cagle-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:cagle-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of Kimberly Ann Spangrude
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:36 AM
To: cagle(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CAGLE] Who were the other children of Old David Cagle?
I don't know who the parents of John Cagle b. 1770 in Moore, North
Carolina are. I would think that since he was born 1770, he is
proably not the son of old David. I only know that John Cagle b.
1770 in Moore NC married Lucy ? b. abt 1770 in Moore, NC. and that
they had Henry Cagle b. 1798 in South Carolina, who married
Catherine ? born abt 1804 in North Carolina.
Kim
On May 19, 2007, at 5:55 AM, David Cagle wrote:
Carole and Kimberly
Which John Cagle are you referring to? John, son of Old David or other?
There were two other Cagles who came to Hardin County with Henry
Cagle. Sr
in 1833 and all three were in the 1833 Tax List. They were Henry
Cagle and
his son James Cagle.
Following is some material I got from others:
Henry Cagle, born 11 Jul 1793 in NC, is on the 1840 Dekalb County, AL
census. (Henry is a son of Valentine Cagle. Proof is his birth
recorded in
Valentine's Family Bible. Valentine is a son of Johan "David" Dewalt
Theobald Cagle, son of Leonhart Kegel.)
James & Henry are both listed on the 1850 Hancock, AL census. Can
also be
found on the 1860, 1870 & 1880 census records of Winston
County, AL.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kimberly Ann Spangrude" <kimspangrude(a)mac.com>
To: <cagle(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [CAGLE] Who were the other children of Old David Cagle?
Carole, I descend from one of John and Lucy's sons: Henry born
1798
in SC, married Catherine b. 1804. I would be interested in knowing
more about the rest of John and Lucy's children, as I have only Henry
and no other names. I have that JOhn was born 1770; is that correct?
Kim
On May 18, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Carole Cook wrote:
David,
Thank you for your response.
Do you have a copy of John G. Cagle's book? If you do, please tell
me the
names of the children of John and Lucy Cagle. I think John is
believed to
be the son of Charles Cagle of Cabarrus Co., NC. I think John left a
will
or there were estate papers for him naming his children.
Carole
-----Original Message-----
From: cagle-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:cagle-
bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of David Cagle
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:45 PM
To: cagle(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CAGLE] Who were the other children of Old David Cagle?
Since I don't have much else to go on, I tend to agree with John G.
Cagle re
the sons of Old David Cagle. John wrote in Feb. 1991 that David's
sons
appear to be:
1. John Cagle b. 1740's, d. 1826 Robertson Co., TN
2. George Cagle, 1750-1825, Montgomery Co., NC
3. Jacob Cagle, 1755-1845, Warren Co., TN
4. Valentine Cagle, 1760's-ca 1815 Warren Co., TN
5. Henry Cagle, ca 1760-ca 1838 Hardin Co., TN
I am a descendent of No.5, Henry Cagle, Sr. above. Three Cagles who I
assume to be his sons moved to Hardin Co, TN in the 1820's from
Cabarrus Co.
NC. Charles Cagle was in the Hardin Co., Court Records in 1823,
George
bought land in Hardin Co., in 1826 and Henry Cagle, Jr., 1780-1857,
was in
Hardin County by 1829. Charles Cagle bought and sold land in adjacent
McNairy Co., TN in 1837, never to heard of again (someone help me).
George
and Henry Jr. were in the 1830 census of Hardin Co. Both were on the
1833
Tax List of Hardin Co. along with their father, Henry Sr. all three
entered
land and had it surveyed in Hardin Co., TN in 1837. I have no further
record of Henry Cagle Sr. and assume he died ca 1838. George and
Henry Sr.
along with other family members moved to New Madrid Co., MO in 1838.
While
clearing land, George was killed by a falling tree in 1840. Henry
Cagle,
Jr. died in New Madrid Co. MO in 1857. Administration of his estate
named
all his Children, but I don't know his first wife, nor the wife of
Henry
Cagle, Sr. Need Help here.
Glad you ask that question Carole. Hope you get some more opinions.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carole Cook" <carolescoaching(a)mstarmetro.net>
To: "CAGLE@rootsweb. com" <CAGLE(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:10 PM
Subject: [CAGLE] Who were the other children of Old David Cagle?
> Old David Cagle was the father of George Cagle (born c1750; died 6
> November
> 1825 in Montgomery Co., NC). The wife of George was Rebecca.
>
>
>
> Old David Cagle was also the father of a son named Jacob Cagle.
>
>
>
> What were the names of the other children of old David Cagle?
>
>
>
> Carole
>
>
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