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Here is another resource from Ancestry. Com that summarizes the theories about Black Dutch. The bottom line in all that I have ever read on the subject is that no one really knows how the term originated.
http://www.ancestry.com/columns/myra/Shaking_Family_Tree04-02-98.htm
Hope Everyone has a Happy Holiday!
Tom Cagle
Hi Cagle Cousins,
For those of you who might be interested in further alternative
explanations of the term " Black Dutch", I have been doing a little digging
into other areas.
The sub-diectory below is from a family website I located on Yahoo search
engine.
http://www.qni.com/~suni/blackdutch.htm
There are many other links from this page, and some have a seemingly
reasonable exploration of the term. I leave each to draw their own
conclusions.
It seems also likely that some of our "missing" ancestral links may be,
in fact, hidden by historical rebuffs caused by these quirks of racism in
record administration offices. Aparently "mixing" of the races and family
records has only reccently became accepted in some areas.
As Earl mentioned earlier, I will be unsubscribing shortly. I am facing a
major upgrade of all my equipment, Harddrives, Browsers, and E-mail. This
will take about two weeks. At that time I will re-subscribe.
My regular e-mail will remain operative for the most part. I also have a
www e-mail as doyle71(a)hotmail.com , I check it daily.
In reading and evaluating the history of the " Black Dutch", keep in mind
that recorded history is usually only the written perceptions of one
observer of events. It has been my experience of many long years, that much
actual written history is erroneous, due to mis-interpretation, or bias, of
the recorder.
Best wishes, a very happy holiday season, and a safe journey into the
next century to all.
Doyle Chambers Jun 32
Homepage:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~doylech
The December 1994 issue of the NGS Quarterly launched a Black Dutch
study project to be headed by GeLee Corley Hendrix, CG. Anyone
interested in this may wish to contact Mrs. Hendrix at 3 Acorn Court,
Greenville, SC 29609 for the status of this study.
To quote their first sentence: "One of the enduring mysteries of
American genealogy is the ethnic identification of a group widely and
vicariously referred to as the 'Black Dutch'."
M.A. Causey
Dear Cousins,
Thanks for the many congratulatory messages. Now that I am an old
married man
again, I will be back on line and researching our roots again.
We have been busy moving my "stuff" to Naomi's house which is much nicer
than
mine and getting mine ready for rental. Naomi's house has an indoor
heated
swimming pool so, she didn't get any argument from me as to where to
live.
May I wish each and everyone of you a very merry Christmas and a Happy
New
Year.
God Bless you All,
Cuz Lee
10-27-36
(Note to Cathy: The recipe you ask for is forthcoming. Turns out Naomi
does have
one.)
___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Dear Friends and Family:
I am happy to announce that I have recently remarried to a wonderful
woman whose name
is Naomi Edwards Linton. For my geneaolgy family, there is a possibility
of some relation.
Her maternal side is "Free" who hail from Haralson County, Georgia. In
fact, her GGrand
father, Dennis Free was a Dr who practiced in Buchanan. In my index, I
show three Frees as having married Cagles. Who knows? Maybe some of you
have more knowledge of the Frees of Harralson County, Georgia, if so,
please let me know.
My address has changed from 1325 Nail Parkway, Moore, Oklahoma to 3227
Wilshire
Terrace, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73116-3023. My phone number is now Area
Code,
405, phone 843-8812. My email address remains the same:
<caglel1(a)juno.com>: Routine correspondence.
<leecagle(a)earthlink.net>: For anything requiring net connections, i.e.,
attachments, etc.
Yeah, I know, I told a lot of you I would never marry again and it looked
like I wouldn't.
I was two years before I dated, then I married the first woman I dated
but, what the heck
when you find a pair of shoes that fit, you don't need to try on all the
shoes in the store.
Naomi is a great cook and has an interest in recepies, so any of you who
have some you
would like to share, please direct them to her at <NLynn(a)aol.com>. I
know this will
interest you Carolyn.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Cuz Lee Cagle
___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
There appear to be about as many theories as questions on the term
"Black Dutch" - there is no one definition that is accepted. The most
common two seem to be 1) a Germanic descendant of darker complexion or
hair (as in Black Irish) and 2) descendants of the Melungeons (another
mysterious people, apparently a mixture of black, white and Indian).
This latter could not describe the original immigrant, but might apply
to some descendants.
There was a group a few years ago attempting a study on the Black Dutch.
They were inviting anyone and everyone claiming Black Dutch ancestry to
take part. Unfortunately, as I am becoming older and more forgetful I
cannot remember who/where. If interested, you might find it mentioned on
the Internet.
M.A. Causey
Cagle Researchers,
Try this Great <A HREF="http://obits.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/obit.cgi">Obituary
Daily Times Results: Cagle</A> Site. Enter a Keyword such as a City that you
knew where your CAGLES were.Such as......
MEMPHIS...............It will list ALL names of MEMPHIS ,and who had a
Obituary there....................I just decided to Enter the Cagle Name.
HerLine2(a)aol.com Richard
Well here goes. My friend which is Black Dutch said it depends on what side
of the tracks you came from. The poor folks were Black Dutch the rich was
German. My husband family were Black Dutch yep!!! they were poor. However
very good people. LaMona
Hello all,
Doyle Chambers, a member of our list our first year,
will be leaving in a couple of days.
Everything is ok with Doyle, but he has alot of work
to do until after the New Year.
Once he gets caught up again, he will re-join us.
This is an excerpt from Doyle's letter, where he has
yet another theory for the term "Black Dutch".
Earl
====================================
Doyle wrote :
<snip>
As a different point, Re: Black Dutch. I'm sure, like you, there are
several
backgrounds to this use of the name. However, my great grandmother,
Caroline Cagle, was always referred to as " Black Dutch". Her
explanation was that her family came from the low countries, and were
lowland Germans from the area between Germany and the Netherlands. They
were said to speak a different dialect from the Highland Germans.
Wishing you and your wife the best of everything during the
holiday season, see you next year.
Best Wishes, Doyle
Homepage:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~doylech
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Return-path: Njbalmer(a)aol.com
From: Njbalmer(a)aol.com
Full-name: Njbalmer
Message-ID: <0.c1a3aa59.25897fd3(a)aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:35:47 EST
Subject: Re: Who are the Cagles in the Page Will?
To: earl1947(a)webtv.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44
Hi
I don't know how it all fits but this is Frances "Fanny" Macom Cagle, who was
married to John Cagle, 1810-1872, and he was the son of Peter Cagle
1775-1842 NC. On the marriage bond for this couple dated Feb. 5, 1833
Randolph County, NC, the Security pledge is by John Cagle & Jacob Page.
Fanny is also listed as buying some of the property of John's at the Estate
sales, Book B. 1855-1877 In Cherokee County, GA. . this is not much but
maybe enough to help a little in this Georgia Book (I have three of the Ga
books) There are some Kings in here I will look and see what it has to say
on any of them . Cagle , Page and Kings all all connected to .
Nancy Jane
Nancy jane
Tarzana , Ca
April 1945
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Hi Cousins,
Once again, a useful service at Rootsweb for any of you that don't
already have it. This URL for the Obituary Times lists 249 Cagle names or
connections in this issue, just updated. A lot are older Cagle's and/or
former Cagle names.
http://obits.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/obit.cgi
The search engine can be used for other surnames as well. I find 1600
plus Chambers I have yet to look at. As always, at Rootsweb, it's free to all.
Hope it can be of use to someone else.
Best Holiday wishes to all, Doyle
Homepage:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~doylech
Hello list,
As Earl said, there are probably several legitimate explanations for the
term "Black Dutch". If I may offer mine.
A a young child, I shadowed my grandfather day and night. He was always
saying he was black dutch or Pennsylvanis dutch. Up until about two years
ago I had accepted this and would tell people I was Dutch. Then I learned
that in reference to the Pennsylvania Dutch, this was a term that meant
simply Pennsylvania German, as dutch in the aforementioned context was the
Americanized version of "Deutsch" the German word for Germany.
http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm gives a good explanation for this.
As for black dutch, I have heard it refered to a German from the black
forest area of Germany. More recently I downloaded a explanation of the term
from either the Fayette or Sullivan Co TN homepage. In short it stated that
it was a term that people with mixed blood, primarily Indian/white, used
when questioned about their nationality. It was extremely unpopular to be
part Indian when term came into being and I suppose those of mixed blood
were darker than most and drew unwanted attention. The explanation sounded
reasonable but who knows.
Gary
I just checked the Fayette County Tn page and the links are there for the
explanation of black dutch but they are no longer valid. If any one is
interested I will find the download and send it to you individualy.
My grandmother, Mattie Susan (Saffell) Mashburn, was the daughter of Stephen
Decator Saffell and Ferbie Lee Cagle. Ferbie Lee's parents were John Cagle
and Phereby Rogers. I always heard my grandmother tell that her Cagle
Ancestors were "Black Dutch". Glad to know what that actually refers to
now.
Maxine Smith
Clovis, CA
Tom Cagle & List,
As owner of the Cagle mail list I get issues of
Rootsweb Review.
In todays edition, there is mention of this site that
translates "Old German Language".
Tom, you may want to check out this site to see if
it will help translate the German will, of Henry Cagle. This is cliped
from the newsletter:
Earl
GERMAN/ENGLISH, ENGLISH/GERMAN TRANSLATIONS FOR GENEALOGISTS. Including
old German scripts and handwriting.
<http://hometown.aol.com/faithgib/page5.html>
Nancy Jane wrote:
===============================
Hi
I don't know how it all fits but this is Frances "Fanny" Macom Cagle,
who was married to John Cagle, 1810-1872, and he was the son of Peter
Cagle 1775-1842 NC. On the marriage bond for this couple dated Feb. 5,
1833 Randolph County, NC, the Security pledge is by John Cagle & Jacob
Page. Fanny is also listed as buying some of the property of John's at
the Estate sales, Book B. 1855-1877 In Cherokee County, GA. . this is
not much but maybe enough to help a little in this Georgia Book (I have
three of the Ga books) There are some Kings in here I will look and see
what it has to say on any of them . Cagle , Page and Kings all all
connected to .
Nancy Jane
Nancy jane
Tarzana , Ca
April 1945
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nancy & List,
These folks may be ancestors of someone on the
list. Anytime you want to refer to articles from one
of John G.Cagle's books, then please do.
He has worked very hard for many years researching the Cagle's. Of
course I welcome any input from his
books.
Thank You,
Earl
Richard wrote:
================================
Dear Earl,I missed the Address for those looking for Cagles in
Louisiana,There is two of them in Here,Have them Check out ALL of The
cemetaries.....<A
HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~lanatchi/Manasco.htm">Natchit oches
Parish Cemeteries: Manasco Cemetery</A> There is a LIsting for ALL
cemetaries from this Location.
Richard
=====================================
Richard,
We have a few Louisiana Cagle researchers, on the
list. So this way they can see the Cemetery link you
sent. With a little luck maybe it will help someone.
Thanks for passing the link on & now others can use
it. Anyone finding sites that refer to our Cagle's,
please pass them on.
Earl
Charlie Cagle wrote:
============================
Earl there was something that was very interesting to me in what you had
written,that was the mention of the term"Black Dutch" my ggrandfather
(Charlie Cagle) was said to be Black Dutch I have never heard of this
anywhere before. My ggrandfather was born in Illinois in November 1853
and died in Lawrence County, Alabama in August 1914,he was married to
Annie Elizabeth Staggs.
His father was Charles Cagle son of Valentine
Cagle Sr. I wonder if there could be any connection.
Happy Hunting
Charlie Cagle
========================================
Charlie & List,
Back several months ago we talked of this "Black
Dutch", terminology.
There are of course more than one explanation for
this. First and foremost, is ones blood line so to speak. If for example
Leonhart Kegel, being German
& his wife Dutch, then their children could refer to
themselves as "Black Dutch".
As it said in the Clarksville, Texas newspaper article he wanted to be
called "Black Dutch".
One would only deny their ancestry, if they had been persecuted in some
way. This may have been
the case, and some history buff could best answer
as to what turmoil was going on in Germany, in the 1700's.
Also this name may have gotten attached to them
in this way. For my part this is what I tend to think
is how the term "Black Dutch" came to be.
When our Cagle / Kegel ancestors first settled in the
Colonies, they of course knew little if any english.
When approached by someone who asked "Where
are you from" they answered the best they could.
"Deutch Land" is what they may have answered as
to where they were from. The translation for this is
"Father Land" or "Home Land".
This German word, may have sounded to most like
"Dutch".
So as you see Charlie, there is more than one theory.
Earl
June & Earl,
Here is a link that is the beginning of several posts about the Golightly family in TN and AL. I saw Parthenia mentioned in one of the posts. There are many posts so there must be a lot of interest in this line.
URL http://genforum.familytreemaker.com/golightly/messages/70.html
Tom
June & List,
On a lark I decided to search the surname Golghtly,
and there was one listing:
Earl
Surname: GOLIGHTLY
Given Name: ANNA L
Date: 10/12/1893
Age: 56 YRS
Sex: F
Race: W
Book: File Number:47863
Notes: DIED IN COLLIERVILLE, TN; BODY MOVED 3/14/1900
June & List,
You also mention that your Cagle's, were from Shelby Co; Tn.
This county has some online death records. This
one was listed for Shelby Co; Tn.
Thought he may have been a connection to yours:
Surname: CAGLE
Given Name:P J
Date:9/5/1878
Age:35 YRS
Sex:M
Race:W
Book:File Number:18977AN
Earl
Information
The research of Cagle, and allied families beginning with our earliest ancestor Leonhart Kegel.
Please use: cagle@rootsweb.com
To tell the members about your research, and where you may need help.
Earl D. Cagle Sr.
List Administrator