Beginning March 2nd, 2020 the Mailing Lists functionality on RootsWeb will be discontinued. Users will no longer be able to send outgoing emails or accept incoming emails. Additionally, administration tools will no longer be available to list administrators and mailing lists will be put into an archival state.
Administrators may save the emails in their list prior to March 2nd. After that, mailing list archives will remain available and searchable on RootsWeb
In a message dated 6/26/98 6:26:32 PM !!!First Boot!!!, jdball(a)raex.com
writes:
<< Subj: DAVIES/MORGAN - Blaina
Date: 6/26/98 6:26:32 PM !!!First Boot!!!
From: jdball(a)raex.com (Jim Ball)
Reply-to: jdball(a)raex.com
To: BlaenauGwent-L(a)rootsweb.com
Greetings from a new list subscriber. I was very happy to locate
this list which covers such a specific area including Blaina. The
reason is that I've had difficulty in tracking down any tangible
records concerning my g-grandmother, Margaret DAVIES, and her family.
Apparently the records haven't been filmed.
##########
The records for this area have been filmed, they are listed under Aberystruth
district in the LDS computer. I have the 1851 at my local LDS library, and
will try to find Margaret in it, but I won't be going until next week.
Margaret DAVIES (or was it DAVIS?) was born 4 Jul 1841 in Blaina,
Monmouthshire. This is according to a Bible record, which appears to
have been entered second-hand, probably by a daughter, here in the
States. I've learned to be somewhat questioning when it comes to
these entries as I have found a few inconsistencies. Her death record
gives her parents as Jenkin (or Jenkins) DAVIES and Gwendolyn MORGAN.
I have no idea as to the accuracy of that.
Margaret is said to have arrived in America in 1857 by herself,
settling in Trumbull County, Ohio. I don't know if that's correct
either. There had to have been some reason to attract her to NE Ohio.
There was a Jenkin DAVIES/DAVIS who lived in the vicinity and who
died in 1896 at the age of 72 (b. ca. 1824). By age, this man could
be Margaret's father, but his wife's name was Jane
######### Have you checked the 1880census for Trumbull Co. Ohio? It is
soundexed, although there may be many Margaret Davies born 1841. You could
also send for her birth certifcate, and that would give her parents' names.
Welcome to the list, we're all here for the same reason, to help each other
find our ancestors from Blaenau Gwent, and to learn about the area.
Dot
List Sponsor
Hello all,
Here are some TOVEYs that I have found on some pages that I copied from the
census for Blaenavon
1851 census Bumble Hole, Blaenavon Iron Works, Llanfoist, Mon
HO107/2447 folio 19 back
William Tovey Head Mar 40 Ironstone Miner Gloucester, Mangleford
Mary Ann Tovey Wife Mar 30 Gloucester, Kingswood
Elizabeth Tovey Daur 13 Llanfoist
Jane Tovey Daur 11 Llanfoist
Moses Tovey Son 7 Llanfoist
George Tovey Son 8mo Llanfoist
HO107/2447 folio 20 front
George Tovey Head Mar 63 Coal Miner Gloucester Wesley
Amy Tovey Wife Mar 60 Mon, Trevethin
Ann Tovey Daur Unm 35 Mon, Trevethin
John Edwards Grandson 7 Mon, Llanfoist
Ewin Turner Inmate Unm 26 Gloucester Wesley
George Turner Inmate Unm 20 Gloucester Wesley
Samuel Tovey Son Mar 25 Mon, Trevethin
I also have the above family in the 1861 census - with the grandson given
the surname Tovey instead of Edwards
I am not connected with these families (not to my knowledge anyway!)
Hoping that someone is connected with them
Stephen Jones
Wet and windy Weymouth, Dorset, England
wyside01(a)globalnet.co.uk
Evan Jones, Grocer, 17 Broad Street, Blaenavon 1896-1920
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~wyside01/index.htm
Greetings from a new list subscriber. I was very happy to locate
this list which covers such a specific area including Blaina. The
reason is that I've had difficulty in tracking down any tangible
records concerning my g-grandmother, Margaret DAVIES, and her family.
Apparently the records haven't been filmed.
Margaret DAVIES (or was it DAVIS?) was born 4 Jul 1841 in Blaina,
Monmouthshire. This is according to a Bible record, which appears to
have been entered second-hand, probably by a daughter, here in the
States. I've learned to be somewhat questioning when it comes to
these entries as I have found a few inconsistencies. Her death record
gives her parents as Jenkin (or Jenkins) DAVIES and Gwendolyn MORGAN.
I have no idea as to the accuracy of that.
Margaret is said to have arrived in America in 1857 by herself,
settling in Trumbull County, Ohio. I don't know if that's correct
either. There had to have been some reason to attract her to NE Ohio.
There was a Jenkin DAVIES/DAVIS who lived in the vicinity and who
died in 1896 at the age of 72 (b. ca. 1824). By age, this man could
be Margaret's father, but his wife's name was Jane.
Would any of the subscribers have any information on this family, or
point me in the right direction? I would really appreciate the help.
Regards...
Jim Ball
Uniontown, OH USA
jdball(a)raex.com
I don't know whether this is of interest, but there are GRAVEL/GRAVELL in Merthyr
Tydfil census 1851 (CMN & MON mostly) and GRAVILS in 1851 for Aberdare.
Pam
in New Zealand
> 1851 census: Aberystruth district HO107-2447
> Forge Row: Thomas Gravel 46 Iron Foundry Born in Glamorgan
> Elizabeth 44
> "
> Evan 16
> Born in Monmouthshire
> Job 14
> "
> Sarah 6
> "
> John 5
> "
>
> It would be great if we could get some local input on this list.
> Dot
> List Sponsor
>
>
> ==== BlaenauGwent Mailing List ====
>
>
>
>
In a message dated 6/25/98 8:10:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
A2667372(a)infotrade.co.uk writes:
<< Hopefully this contact may help the site as this, as most valley
communities, is still very close knit ; however info will be via snail-mail.
I would really like to have the transcript. :,))
>>
1851 census: Aberystruth district HO107-2447
Forge Row: Thomas Gravel 46 Iron Foundry Born in Glamorgan
Elizabeth 44
"
Evan 16
Born in Monmouthshire
Job 14
"
Sarah 6
"
John 5
"
It would be great if we could get some local input on this list.
Dot
List Sponsor
-----Original Message-----
From: Llewaidd(a)aol.com <Llewaidd(a)aol.com>
To: BlaenauGwent-L(a)rootsweb.com <BlaenauGwent-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 5:47 PM
Subject: Women and Children
>Hi B/G Listers,
>I would very much like to read Graham Powell's article, Dot. About those
>ditto marks on the 1851 census, I guess I'll never know for sure if the
women
>and children so marked were actually working in the pits, but now I realize
it
>is a possibility. Whew, what a shock! What I don't understand is why the
>enumerator used the abbreviation "do." in one column and ditto marks in
>another, unless the ditto marks were added later by some other person.
These
>little mysteries make family history research fun, don't they?
>
>Regarding "Rape of the Fair Country" by Alexander Cordell, I checked at
>Barnes & Noble for it and they told me it isn't in print currently, after
>checking on computer. I guess I will go to the library and see if I can
get
>it.
>
>Larry
>
>
>==== BlaenauGwent Mailing List ====
>
>
Hi Larry,
Whilst I can`t answer for American Publishers/Bookshops I can
tell you that "Rape of the Fair Country" by Alexander Cordell has just gone
back on the shelf at my local W.H. Smiths in Bridgend, which is by no means
either a large or specialist bookseller so they must have re-printed it
recently......
regards
Huw
Thurlow & Glamlist Sponsor
hdaniel(a)enterprise.net
Hello Marilyn, yes, you do develop a knack for reading fiche. I was also bewildered
by the IGI information the first time I used a fiche reader. I found that after I
had photocopied a page showing the whole thing, including all the reference letters
(A,B,C,D etc) I understood exactly what I was looking at. I kept the photocopy
beside me as a reference for a few sessions until I was familiar with the layout.
--
Pam
in New Zealand
> Today I spent my lunch-hour in Glos. library with my first attemt to use a
> fiche reader. As I was given the I.G.I pointed at the reader, shown how to
> read it and switch it on - the results were mixed. I can access each
> individual page on the sheets - but I couldnot follow what information was
> on each page on the sheet.
Could be. I have my hasbands line on hold until my brother-in-law ( the rest
of John's family still live in Blaina !) returns from holiday. I was then
going to show him what I have and pump him for as much missing detail as I
can.
Hopefully this contact may help the site as this, as most valley
communities, is still very close knit ; however info will be via snail-mail.
I would really like to have the transcript. :,))
Today I spent my lunch-hour in Glos. library with my first attemt to use a
fiche reader. As I was given the I.G.I pointed at the reader, shown how to
read it and switch it on - the results were mixed. I can access each
individual page on the sheets - but I couldnot follow what information was
on each page on the sheet.
Is it a Knack you develop ?
Marilyn Gravell
Hi B/G Listers,
I would very much like to read Graham Powell's article, Dot. About those
ditto marks on the 1851 census, I guess I'll never know for sure if the women
and children so marked were actually working in the pits, but now I realize it
is a possibility. Whew, what a shock! What I don't understand is why the
enumerator used the abbreviation "do." in one column and ditto marks in
another, unless the ditto marks were added later by some other person. These
little mysteries make family history research fun, don't they?
Regarding "Rape of the Fair Country" by Alexander Cordell, I checked at
Barnes & Noble for it and they told me it isn't in print currently, after
checking on computer. I guess I will go to the library and see if I can get
it.
Larry
In a message dated 6/25/98 2:47:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Llewaidd(a)aol.com
writes:
<< hought perhaps this was the case. Forgive me though, I am still recovering
from a mild case of shock at the realization of my g/g/grandmother Jane
mining
coal at age 13. While I had known for years that her son, my great
grandfather had started working in the mines at age 10 or 11, I didn't know
that girls were also subject to such exploitation. What a pity. Jane was a
tough lady. She outlived two husbands, raised up six children, and buried at
least one infant child in her lifetime. When the family came to America, she
did laundry for the ship's crew to help pay for their fare. Jane died in
1925
at age 88. At the time she was living with her granddaughter near Driftwood
PA. The story goes Jane liked to smoke a pipe of tobacco, but her
granddaughter, fearing a fire, had taken her pipe and tobacco and hidden them
in the house. Jane found them and crawled out her bedroom window onto the
porch roof for a smoke, lost her balance and fell to her death.
>>
What a sad story!
In regard to your Great Great Grandmother and other women and girls in the
mines, I have an article written by Graham Powell, called "Requiem for South
Wales coal mines", from the August 1994 edition of Y Drych (the Welsh-American
newpaper), that states, in part:
Even horses could not find refuge from the rule of Old King Coal: In 1913
there were over 17,500 horses in the So. Wales mines (an average of 30 per
mine) The horses did at least replace the women and children who had
previously done the work."
At some point in the census, though, I think they just overdid the ditto marks
- I have a census page, Head of the family, collier,
wife "
and child 1 year old, " , Now we know for sure a one
year old didn't go into the mines!
You still haven't gotten "Rape of the Fair Country", have you, Larry? That
tells very vividly about children in the mines. Try to get it.
Dot Rutherford
List Sponsor
Hi Listers,
Thanks Ann and Dot for looking at that census. Last night I studied it under
magnification and am quite sure now you are right it is Llantilio Pertholey.
Thanks also for your comments on the "Miner - Collier" distinctions. I had
thought perhaps this was the case. Forgive me though, I am still recovering
from a mild case of shock at the realization of my g/g/grandmother Jane mining
coal at age 13. While I had known for years that her son, my great
grandfather had started working in the mines at age 10 or 11, I didn't know
that girls were also subject to such exploitation. What a pity. Jane was a
tough lady. She outlived two husbands, raised up six children, and buried at
least one infant child in her lifetime. When the family came to America, she
did laundry for the ship's crew to help pay for their fare. Jane died in 1925
at age 88. At the time she was living with her granddaughter near Driftwood
PA. The story goes Jane liked to smoke a pipe of tobacco, but her
granddaughter, fearing a fire, had taken her pipe and tobacco and hidden them
in the house. Jane found them and crawled out her bedroom window onto the
porch roof for a smoke, lost her balance and fell to her death.
Larry
I agree with Dot it could be Llantilio pertholey not too far from
Abergavenny or anywhere else in the county it being quite small
Ann Macey
Gwent FHS Journal Editor
--
If you keep your mouth shut, you will never put your foot in it.
Austin o'Malley
collier, miners coal miners etc
there were levels of seniority and I believe that colliers were face
workers - people who worked at the coal face cutting the coal. miners did
other things like moving the coal to the shaft and stuff like that. were
women miners? oh yes indeed they were! and children as young as 5 or 6
worked in the mines sometimes for 12 hours a day!
Ann Macey
Editor Gwent FHS Journal
--
If you keep your mouth shut, you will never put your foot in it.
Austin o'Malley
Hi all
new email address for me the Society computer fell over - oh boy did it
fall over!! so I am using personal address for the time being
Ann Macey
Editor Gwent FHS Journal
--
If you keep your mouth shut, you will never put your foot in it.
Austin o'Malley
Hello subscribers,
I am new to Welsh research, although I'm lucky to have benefitted
from earlier research by distant relatives. My ancestors came from
areas of Gwent close to Blaenau.
5x great grandfather, George NICHOLAS, born 1729, apparently
married Rebecca WATKINS (born c1731) at Grosmont in 1763.
George's parents and grandparents may have been Simon NICHOLAS and
Hannah (unknown) and Simon NICHOLAS and Mary (unknown).
William WATKINS may have been Rebecca's father. Walter, John, and
George WATKINS (among others!) may also have been connected.
Records show these families lived in the Grosmont, Llantillio
Crosseny, Upper Cwm (Brynderi) areas at least until early 19thC.
William NICHOLAS, son of George and Rebecca, married Mary WATKINS
in 1796 at Llantillio Crosseny. William (without Mary) and their
children settled in Tasmania, Australia, where he died in 1837.
I would like to share info with anyone researching possibly
linked WATKINS or NICHOLAS lines.
Cheers,
Helen (in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia)
Have Infromation from 1881 as foffows:
High St. North Aberystruth
Harris William,HD,Age 23,Labour--Born MNM Cwmm
Harris Elizabeth,Wi,Age 21 Born MNM Lindy
Harris David,Son,Age 3-Born-MNM Blaenavon
Harris Elizabeth Ann,Age 9M.,Born Blaina-Living with Father Aberystruth.****
***My granmother Elizabeth Ann in My record show she was born Blaina,But birthday
was Aug. 8 1881 This makes it the 8m not 9m,
To make sure that I have the right Family I need further Info..
Re: I know my Granmother had a sister Ginny or Virgina & another suspected Bertha.
Any one that might have access to the 1891 census that would make this lookup ..
It would be much appreciated---Wilf..
hoffmann(a)telusplanet.net
In a message dated 6/24/98 3:58:51 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Llewaidd(a)aol.com
writes:
<<
and on the next line his wife Sarah who was born in "Mon., Llantilio
-------y?" There is only a single-L rather than a double-L in the middle of
the word. The word that follows is pretty hard to read, I thought it looked
like it started with a "P" and ended with a "Y" but it could be a "C" at the
beginning. Anybody else with a copy of this census page (HO107/2447)? If
so,
have a look and tell me if you think Sarah was born in Llantillio Crosseny,
or
some other place.
>>################
It could also be Llantilio Pertholey. A good place to check place names is the
following web site: <A HREF="http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/">Genuki
Monmouthshire</A> Scroll down until you come to Towns & Parishes, click on
the letter L, and you'll see all the towns beginning with L. It looks like
only two are close, though.
Dot
List Sponsor
Hi again B/G Listers,
I just finished reading Helen's inquiry regarding NICHOLAS, and noticed a
reference to "Llantillio Crosseny." Is this in Monmouthshire? Back to my
1851 census for "Pen-y-Wain" I find a William Newman, 28, head, "Coal miner"
and on the next line his wife Sarah who was born in "Mon., Llantilio
-------y?" There is only a single-L rather than a double-L in the middle of
the word. The word that follows is pretty hard to read, I thought it looked
like it started with a "P" and ended with a "Y" but it could be a "C" at the
beginning. Anybody else with a copy of this census page (HO107/2447)? If so,
have a look and tell me if you think Sarah was born in Llantillio Crosseny, or
some other place.
Larry
Hello B/G Listers,
Another big "thank you" to Dot Rutherford for helping me find the Newman
families on the 1851 census for Aberystruth parish. After looking at the
copied census page, I have a few mysteries/questions to put on the table here:
The entry of "Pen-y-Wain" appears in the column under the heading "place,
location, name of house, etc." I have two copied pages from the census,
together listing 8 or 9 households, all have this entry. The assumption I make
is this is a row of houses or a hamlet. I have a copy of a map section
(undated) that shows a road or track which crosses the mountain ridge between
Newtown/Ebbw Vale and Nantyglo. Along this track (dashed line), closer to
Nantyglo, is the caption "Pen-y-waun", different spelling but pronounced the
same I would think. The map does not show any row of houses in this area. I
don't have the map available at this moment, but I recall the "Pen-y-waun"
caption is near a school grounds. Does anybody know what is/was Pen-y-waun or
Pen-y-Wain? Going back to those census pages, practically every head of
household living at "Pen-y-Wain" was listed as a "miner" or "collier" so one
gets the impression this was some sort of worker housing (no rocket science
required for that one, right?).
Another mystery contained on those pages relates to a couple sets of ditto
marks. In most cases, the enumerators wrote "do." as a abbreviation for
"ditto" when they wanted to repeat the entry within the column. So for
example the surname "Newman" is written out only for the head of household,
and wife and children below contain "do." in the surname column. In the
"occupation" column, the head of household (George Newman in this case) is
listed as a "collier." The line below for his wife Louisa contains a set of
ditto marks. The next person listed is a son, David, 17, listed as a "miner."
The next line is his younger sister Jane (my g/g/grandmother) 13, and in the
occupation column is a clear and distinct set of ditto marks. Should I assume
that George's wife Louisa was also a collier, and that my g/g/grandmother Jane
at age 13 was laboring in the pits with her older brother? Why did the
enumerator use ditto marks rather than the "do." abbreviation. While there
are a few stray marks on the page, probably check-offs and tally marks, these
ditto's are not just stray marks. On the second copied census page I noticed
the same situation for another resident of "Pen-y-Wain" where the head was
listed as a "collier" and his wife below had a set of ditto's in the
occupation column. Was the situation so bad in the Crawshay Bailey iron works
that women had to go into the pits along with their husbands and fathers to
make a living wage? Please, somebody shed some light on this for me!
Well that brings up another little mystery regarding the occupation. I have
seen these terms used on this and other census enumerations, "collier, coal
miner, miner" and always assumed they were used interchangeably. Last night
as I looked over the copied pages from the enumerator's booklet it struck me
that he was using "collier" for the heads of households (plus the ditto's for
the wives), and "miner," for the younger ones. Is there a distinction that
anyone is aware of? Boy am I puzzled!
Larry
In a message dated 6/24/98 1:37:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
h.flight(a)mail.bigpond.com writes:
<< 5x great grandfather, George NICHOLAS, born 1729, apparently
married Rebecca WATKINS (born c1731) at Grosmont in 1763.
George's parents and grandparents may have been Simon NICHOLAS and
Hannah (unknown) and Simon NICHOLAS and Mary (unknown).
William WATKINS may have been Rebecca's father. Walter, John, and
George WATKINS (among others!) may also have been connected.
Records show these families lived in the Grosmont, Llantillio
Crosseny, Upper Cwm (Brynderi) areas at least until early 19thC.
William NICHOLAS, son of George and Rebecca, married Mary WATKINS
in 1796 at Llantillio Crosseny. William (without Mary) and their
children settled in Tasmania, Australia, where he died in 1837 >>
########
My Gr Gr Grandfather's name was Thomas Nichols, and he married Rebecca Watkins
nee Leek. Their daughter Sarah Ann was born in 1858 in Blaina but I haven't
been able to find them in any census as yet. By the time Sarah Ann married in
1884, her father was deceased. I have seen the Nichols/Nicholas name mentioned
before in regard to Grosmont. Have you seen any of these names in your
research?
Dot Rutherford
List Sponsor