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Convict couple Jane [arrived 1820 with three children] and Barney CARR
[arrived 1819]had five children. Jane gave birth to two girls Jane and
Catherine in the colony of NSW who's christening are not found under CARR
1850 Jane's will lists her daughters and husbands, Jane to James BRIER and
Catherine to James YATES. Neither girls marriage, appears under Carr or
Kerr. However there are two marriages under the men's names and the girls
James BRIARS to Jane TUCKER in 1840 and James YATES to Catherine FANNON in
In NSW BDM their are christening records for Jane Tucker daughter of Thomas
and Jane in 1821 and Catherine Fanning daughter of Edward and Jane in 1825.
There are no marriages for Thomas Tucker to Jane or Edward
Fanning/Fannan/Fannon to Jane in the years 1788-1828. There is only one
child born to Thomas and Jane Tucker 1788-1840 and the same for Edward and
Thomas Tucker and Edward Fanning were not listed as convicts on State
Archives. Although there is a Thomas Tucker in Tassie in 1820. I found
Edward Fanning AKA Fannin in the 1828 census a convict arriving on the
Minvera 1819. The same ship that Jane Carr's eldest daughter Maria married
a man from in 1827. Thomas Tucker was not listed in 1828.
Jane CARR in 1822 muster is listed at Parramatta factory with two children
4 and 1 both born in the colony. The older child however was born overseas.
Barney, her Husband was only assigned to Jane in 1824 at her request, prior
to this he was assigned to Emu plains on arrival. The family is listed in
the 1825 muster together Jane, husband and two sons and on another page
Maria [the older daughter] with Jane Jnr.
The next daughter Catherine was born about 1826 and both girls are listed
with their Mother in 1828 census under KERR the husband is missing from
the census. A trial report in May 1831 has Jane stating she has not lived
with her husband for some years. 1827 a newspaper article regarding a trial
for robbery acquits Jane but finds she was illegally at large and ordered
to be returned to the factory [possibly from a charge of theft brought
against her in 1826]. My earlier thoughts were that Jane became pregnant
during her time in Parramatta factory but with the second child it could
have been during time out.
Am I correct in thinking the above christening records and marriages are
for Jane CARR's daughters?
I would also like to hear from anyone who can add further details of whom
Thomas Tucker and Edward Fanning/Fannin were?
Hi everyone, These convict ancestors of mine arrived at Port Jackson:
William Steward arrived on the Fortune in 1813 - wife and children on the
Thomas Blades arrived on the Surrey in 1814 - wife and children on the
George Seymour arrived on the Asia in 1820
John Ireland arrived on the Guildford in 1823
Joseph Fawcett arrived on the John in 1837
Very happy to share information.
It seems he died on 3 Dec 1842, using a search engine, search for "John Benrose" convict 1837.
---- Lawrence smith <moongaze2010(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to find out more info about John Bemrose.Having been convicted
> of stealing a waistcoat he was transported to Australia in 1837, aboard the
> Lloyd. Which arrived at Port Jackson on the 17th July 1837.He was given a
> seven year sentence, I would like to know
> what happened to him whilst in Australia. John was mt great great
> regards LS
> To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I would like to find out more info about John Bemrose.Having been convicted
of stealing a waistcoat he was transported to Australia in 1837, aboard the
Lloyd. Which arrived at Port Jackson on the 17th July 1837.He was given a
seven year sentence, I would like to know
what happened to him whilst in Australia. John was mt great great
Good afternoon Ron, and to Warren too,
When you say the Marjorams "roamed around Suffolk" like gypsies, I find
that an interesting remark, and I have heard it before on numerous
occasions, but the family of the convicts, father Robert and son
William, who ended up coming here, had been living in Ufford/ Bredfield
for several generations, from looking at old birth and death records.
Going back in time though, most ag.labs. would have "roamed around"
looking for work wherever they could get it, a bit like Gypsies, unless
they were "indentured" to the landowner. There is a tale that says
people with the names of "herbs" are Gypsies.
A few weeks ago, I went through some very old notes trying to tie other
Marjoram families into my line, over a number of generations, all near
I think I learned on one of my trips to Bredfield that the village
"Pettistree" is named after "St. Peter's tree" - maybe some beautiful
oak or such like in the grounds of a St. Peter's Church. Here are
snippets of info I have accumulated. The earliest record I have is of
Robert Marjoram who died in 1719 in Pettistree and his wife Ann who died
in Pettistree in April 1711. These are their children all bapt.
Pettistree - Robert b. 1673 m. Elizabeth Cobham b. 9.10.1698, no dates
of death; William b. 1675; Ann b. 1678; Edmund b. 1681 m. Sarah West
1708, no dates of marriage or death; Thomas b. 1682 d. 1683; Mary b.
Edmund Marjuram (note spelling) son of another Robert Marjoram b. 1681,
and Ann (n.f.i.) married 16 Nov. 1708 Pettistree, and died May 1731.
Edmund's wife was Sarah West, b. c.1685 Wickham, died August 1732
Pettistree. The children were Edmund b.1709 died 1709; Ann b. 1712
Pettistree d. Pettistree 1730; Edmund b. 1715; Sarah b. 1718; William
1718; John b. 1720 Pettistree, died 1753 Pettistree.
*Jeremiah Marjoram* b. 9 March 1775 who came from Pettistree, a son of
John Margerum and Susan Cullum, married Elizabeth Row on 9 March 1775
- my friend Ann, who lives in Bredfield in Suffolk, almost next door to
where the Marjorams lived, sent the following, and she just looked it up
in the Church Records for me. Ann is one of the "bell ringers" at
Bredfield Church. When we were celebrating our 200 years here, Ann and
another lady Joan (ex school teacher, from the area, and who now, almost
in her 90s, has just bought a "motor bike for geriatrics") decided to
research the convict records to see if any came from Suffolk, and guess
who they found. Since then, the knowledge on the Marjorams has been
slightly enlarged! And so has my list of friends. When I travelled to
the UK way back in 1961 Suffolk was one of my favourite counties in
England, long before I became involved with family history, and that was
long before the inter-net. Recently I stayed with Ann, who took me all
around the Marjoram haunts.
The following are the children from the above marriage of Jeremiah and
Elizabeth Row in Boulge in Suffolk, and all were baptised in Bredfield
in Suffolk:- Jerry b. 1775, John b. 1778 who married Sarah Oxborrow on
18/4/1800; Susan 1779; George 1781 who married an Elizabeth - no
surname; Sarah 1782; Margaret b 1784 who might have married a "Brown";
Robert b. 1785, who married Frances Crow in 1814 in Ufford (*my/our
line*); Christian b.9/3/1787; James b. 28/1/1791; Jeremiah b. 4/6/1794.
Here's a local one - Robert Marjoram married ca 1887 Lithgow, East
Macquarie to Elizabeth Ainsworth. I know William Marjoram's brother
Robert came out here with his wife Lydia nee Moss, and they had four
children, the third of whom was Robert and I have that Lydia died and
her husband Robert re-married . I suspect that Robert Marjoram Snr.
(convict) in the long years of his sentence, around the Bathurst/Lithgow
area, somehow managed to puddle for gold, as on his release from a 14
year sentence he went back to Suffolk, was there for the marriage of a
couple of his children, and paid the fares for Robert jnr. and and his
bride Lydia(nee Moss) to come to Australia, and then for Robert snr. and
his wife Frances to came back here /_1st Class_ /on the ship they
travelled on .
Robert Snr.'s son, the convict William Marjoram, had a daughter Frances,
and she was my father's paternal grandmother, married to John Hogan,
the son of my*Irish convict Denis Hogan* and his wife Margaret Carey
also from Ireland - an immigrant connection - and Frances was loved very
much by my Dad, Wilfred John Hogan, aka "Jack", and his two sisters,
Evelyn Mary Hogan, and Frances Alma Hogan. Frances Marjoram/Hogan was
the local midwife where they lived for a long time, somewhere near
Forest Reefs south of Bathurst etc.. When John Hogan died, Frances
came and lived with her son James and his wife, my grandmother, Adeline
nee Newstead. Frances Marjoram, aged 64, died in 1911 in Sydney - my
father and his two sisters remembered her with great love.
I wish my convict Denis Hogan from Tipperary was as well documented as
the Marjorams - I have no idea of his parents' names, nor do I know
where in Tipperary they came. I have been on the Tipperary List on the
internet for many years, and the "owner" of that list was also connected
to Denis Hogan, and she lives there, and she can't even find any records
of what Denis got up to - the best we can work out, is wherever he was
in Tipperary, he was in the "wrong place at the wrong time", and the
records could have been destroyed in the uprisings in the early 20th
Denis's two elder sons James and John married and both had large
families - John married Frances Marjoram, William the convict's daughter
- Frances was my father's grandmother. James married Mary Jackson, and
they seem to have been around Rylstone for most of the time, but I
haven't traced that line, fully. If any one has information on James
and Mary Hogan, I would be pleased to hear from them as I think one of
their sons, Patrick, married a Mary Ann Austin in 1883. I have
Enough for one day,
On 3/08/2013 12:40 PM, Ron Norton wrote:
> Hi Liz,
> Goodness me, there are some interesting names in the wonderful
> information you sent yesterday.
> Yes, the Coates story is a very interesting one. It actually forms a
> big part of one of my three family history books. The attitude towards
> our convict ancestry seemed to change around the time of
> AustraliaâEUR^(TM)s bicentenary celebrations when people began to
> think more about our history. Today, being descended from a convict is
> almost a status symbol. My wife says she always knew when I had found
> another convict in my family history because of my exclamations of
> joy. You are right; the older members of our families didnâEUR^(TM)t
> want to talk about their past, especially if there was a convict in
> the cupboard. And itâEUR^(TM)s such a shame that they didnâEUR^(TM)t
> because they would have had some wonderful stories to tell. Your
> son-in-law is lucky. Bet you had some fun helping him with his family
> IâEUR^(TM)ve been following your interests in the Hogans. Seems you
> and Laraine Dillon have some connections there. No Hogans in my family
> IâEUR^(TM)m afraid, although I have strong connections with Tipperary.
> Hogan in Tipperary seems to be a little like Smith in Australia. Smith
> was one of my bugbears. My grandmotherâEUR^(TM)s father was William
> John Smith ... can you imagine how many William/John Smiths I had to
> research before I found the right one?
> My grandmother brings me to one of the interesting names you
> mentioned. She married Samuel *Moss* whose family I traced back to
> Cheshire in the UK. Wonder if there might have been any connection
> with your Lydia Moss? And therein is another interesting name âEUR"
> *Crowe*. Two daughters of my greatgrandfather, convict John Norton,
> married Crowe brothers at Murringo, between Boorowa and Young, so I
> have a strong connection with the Crowe family, many of whom still
> live around the Young, Grenfell and Cowra districts.
> Ah, the Gypsy connection. There was a belief in my motherâEUR^(TM)s
> family (she was a Moss) that there was a Gypsy connection but I think
> that belief was based on the name Marjoram. Yes, I have heard, from
> several sources, that Gypsies were supposed to have taken the names of
> herbs as their family names. The Marjoram family was known to have
> roamed around Suffolk and adhered to some of the Gypsy traditions. But
> MaryâEUR^(TM)s case was taken to The World Travellers organisation
> some years ago and there was no conclusive evidence to support the
> Gypsy claims. However, Mary Anne was something of a mystery. She was
> married to Will Coates but she died as Mary Marjoram and was buried
> under that name at the old Castlereagh Cemetery.
> Interesting too that your Mary Ann Marjoram married John Broom. Any
> connection with the John Broom who sailed with Matthew Flinders on his
> circumnavigation of Australia?
> IâEUR^(TM)m sure there must be some connection between your Marjorams
> and mine but the link remains very elusive. ItâEUR^(TM)s not as though
> itâEUR^(TM)s a common name. Maybe one day the link will become obvious.
> Thanks for all your info. As you can see, it was most absorbing.
> Best wishes.
> Ron N
> *From:* Elizabeth Walker <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 02, 2013 4:22 PM
> *To:* Ron Norton <mailto:email@example.com> ; Warren Diggins
> *Subject:* Re ]Coates, Marjoram, Hogan, b. 1842, son of Denis Hogan &
> Margaret Carey.
> Hello Ron,
> Going back many years, I had a friend who married into the Coates
> family in the early 1960s. Her mother was horrified that her
> daughter was marrying someone descended from convicts! Unhappily,
> just a few years later, the daughter was diagnosed with breast cancer,
> and died within some very few weeks from the diagnosis, leaving two
> young children, who would be in their late 40s by now. What a shame
> she did not hear the end of the Coates story.
> I can remember my mother whispering to me that Dad had convicts - she
> was insistent that I did not tell any one. Eventually it turned out
> Dad had 3 but by that time, having a convict had become a bit trendy,
> and by this time my father had passed away - what a shame, he could
> have told me so much! My mother was part Welsh (and the family all
> sang), part English, part French (Normandy), part Chanel Is. -
> Alderney. My son-in-law has 12 convicts including 1st fleeters
> Besides the convict Marjorams, father Robert and son William from
> Bredfield in Suffolk, I descend from Denis Hogan a convict from
> somewhere in Tipperary, n.f.i. - married in Sydney to Margaret
> Carey. Denis seems to have been "in the wrong place at the wrong
> time", and for that he got a 7 year trip to Australia and he became a
> shoemaker. I didn't know any of this when my father was alive, but I
> do remember a heavy metal creation for putting shoes on, so that they
> could be re-soled or re-heeled, and I wonder now, if it might have
> come down from Denis - did they have such things in the early
> colony! Margaret Carey came here under a scheme to bring more women
> to Australia, and all I know about her early life is that I*think *she
> also was Irish.
> Margaret and Denis Hogan had four children, and the second one, John
> Hogan, married Frances Marjoram, the daughter of William Marjoram, and
> William's Scottish wife, Catherine Kennedy, from Ayrshire. Catherine
> died in Brisbane when the children Frances and Robert, were very
> young, and they were put into care, and did not meet again until they
> were well into adulthood. Robert was b. 1849 Ipswich, married 1873
> to Mary Ann Holmes, and died 1906 in Sydney
> I also have a Mary Ann Marjoram, b. 1830, the sister of William and
> daughter of Robert Marjoram snr. (my convicts) - this Mary Ann
> married John Broom, and to my knowledge, remained in Suffolk.
> Another one is John Marjoram b. 1720 Pettistree, married to Susan
> Cullum 1745 in Pettistree, and died 1753, same place. John's father
> was Edmund Marjoram and his mother was Sarah West. John and Susan
> seem to have had Susan, John, Elizabeth, and Jeremiah b. ca 1752/3.
> The father of Robert Marjoram (convict), was also named Jeremiah, and
> I think the one I have just mentioned could well be he.
> Another Robert Marjoram b.? m. ?, died 1719 Pettistree - married Ann
> (no surname) who died 1711 Pettistree. They had the following
> children all in Pettistree - Robert b.1673-? married 1698 to Elizabeth
> Cobham; William b. 1675; Ann 1678; Edmund b. 1681 Pettistree m.
> 16.11.1708 Pettistree, to Sarah West, died ?; Thomas b. 1682, died
> May 1683 Pettistree; Mary b. 1684.
> Another - Edmund Marjoram b,1681, d. May 1731 Pettistree, father
> Robert Marjoram, mother Ann. Married Sarah West b. c 1685 Wickham,
> Marjoram Robert b. 1825 Bredfield Suffolk, son of Robert Marjoram
> (convict) and his wife Frances nee Crowe, married Lydia Moss (dau. of
> William and Sarah Moss) in Bredfield in 1852, and they set off for
> Australia not long after the wedding. I suspect Robert, his father,
> paid the fares for the two of them. Robert jnr. and Lydia had four
> children Sarah 1855 - 1865 Bathurst; Elizabeth 1857-1938 Newtown NSW
> married Joseph Willett 1875; Robert 1859 Bathurst - 1930 Lithgow;
> William 1861 - 1865. Lydia Marjoram died in 1863 in Bathurst, and
> Robert jnr. re-married in 1867 to Elizabeth Blackman, and I don't
> think this couple had any children.
> I also have been told that the Marjorams were Gypsies. Considering
> that Robert Snr. married his wife Frances Crowe in the very beautiful
> church in Ufford, and their children were baptised and/or married in
> the Bredfield Church, it is unlikely they were Gypsies at that time,
> but their family may have been some centuries before. From what I
> have gleaned, Gypsies were supposed to have taken the names of herbs
> as their family names - have you heard of this?
> All for now,
> On 1/08/2013 10:36 PM, Ron Norton wrote:
>> Hello Liz,
>> We have touched base in the past and compared notes about our
>> Marjoram connections. Both came from Suffolk, UK. And they found
>> their way to the Bathurst area but I think we were unable to confirm
>> any family connections.
>> My Marjoram is Mary Ann, convict, born Knodishall Suffolk 15 May
>> 1796; died and buried Castlereagh (near Windsor) March 1838. Mary
>> AnnÃ¢â,¬â"¢s parents were Thomas Marjoram, born Suffolk 1761, and
>> Elizabeth Watling, born England (not sure where) in 1773. There was a
>> suggestion that Mary Ann had a Gypsy background but this seems to
>> have been discounted.
>> Mary Ann married John William (Will) Coates, convict, 3 January 1820
>> at Parramatta. John William was born in Durham England 1791 and died
>> Woodstock, near Bathurst, 8 Dec 1847. They were my maternal
>> grandmotherÃ¢â,¬â"¢s greatgrandparents.
>> After their marriage, Mary Ann and Will Coates moved to Bathurst
>> where Will became the areaÃ¢â,¬â"¢s first school principal. They had
>> land at Kings Plains just outside Bathurst and raised a big family.
>> I know nothing about Mary Ann MarjoramÃ¢â,¬â"¢s English background or
>> family so if you have any info on them it would be most welcome.
>> Thanks for making contact again.
>> Ron Norton.
>> *From:* Elizabeth Walker <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2013 6:27 PM
>> *To:* Ron Norton <mailto:email@example.com>
>> *Subject:* Fwd: Re: [PJ] James Hogan, b. 1842, son of Denis Hogan &
>> Margaret Carey.
>> Good evening Ron,
>> Lariane Dillon has just told me that you have connections to the
>> Marjorams - father Robert, and son William, convicts from Bredfield
>> in Suffolk. They are a part of my late father Wilfred John (known
>> as Jack) Hogan's paternal line. William Marjoram's daughter
>> Frances Marjoram married John Hogan (son of the Irish convict Denis
>> Hogan from Tipperary, and his non-convict wife Margaret nee Carey
>> also from Ireland) and Frances Hogan was my father's grandmother.
>> Frances and John Hogan had 12 children of whom I am aware, and their
>> son James, b. "Lumpy Swamp" in the Carcoar vicinity in 1872 , was my
>> paternal grandfather Jim. He died when I was about 3 years old, in
>> the early war years, but I can still remember him quite vividly - he
>> used to bring me a chocolate Freddo Frog in colourful wrapping.
>> I have quite a lot on the Marjorams, and have been to their village
>> in Suffolk a few times in the past umpteen years - a beautiful part
>> of the world. I am happy to try and answer questions, if you have any.
>> Happy hunting,
>> Liz Walker.
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PJ] James Hogan, b. 1842, son of Denis Hogan and
>> Margaret Carey.
>> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:01:25 +1000
>> From: Laraine Dillon mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Reply-To: Laraine Dillon mailto:email@example.com
>> To: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Hi Liz ,
>> no problem, hang on to that info it may come in handy one day. Could he have
>> had another name other than Dennis..
>> I note the Marjoram line at Castlereagh.. Ron Norton on list is also
>> related to me through his line I know he has Marjoram in his line.
There is a considerable amount of info. on Ann Nowlan in Suzanne Voytas's
excellent book," ELizabeth 1828", if you can't get a copy I can send the
extract to you.
The book covers both the voyage (a very dramatic one) & the individual
I've just discovered that the above is an ancestor and I would like to
find out a bit more about her please.
I have not consulted the 1828 Census as yet and I was wondering if Ann
was sent to the Female Factory in Parramatta.
I have checked the convicts permission to marry index and found the
John Holmes - Age - 25. Came Free Ann Nowlan Elizabeth Age - 20; Sentence -
7 yrs; Condition - Bond. 11 Apr 1831 Revd. J. Vincent Sydney
Richard Kiernan Pilot Age - 43; Sentence - Life; Condition - Ticket of
Leave. Ann Nowlan Elizabeth Age - 20; Sentence - 7 yrs; Condition - Bond. 16
Aug 1831 Revd S. Marsden Parramatta.
On the BDM NSW there is one record of KERNAN Richard marrying Ann NOWLAN in
Ann died as Ann KEARNS (name seems to have changed) in December 1864 and is
buried with Richard KEARNS in St. Patricks Cemetery (Catholic) Parramatta.
Trying to find any other information on her and hopefully find out when/how
the name changed from KIERNAN/KERNAN/KEARNS. Kind regards Dianna
Good afternoon All,
I descend from the convict Denis Hogan, through his son John, and have
acquired information on that line, and now I am trying to trace the
family of John's brother James Hogan who married in Newcastle to Mary
Jackson in 1867.
If I am on the right track, all James and Mary Hogan's children were
born around Rylstone on the Central Tablelands between 1866 and 1875.
Is there anyone one out there who has links to this family.
Elizabeth Walker nee Hogan.
Good day all,
I’m not really looking for any definitive answers here...but if anyone can find out what happened to her..!! Some suggest she returned to the UK. The last reference to her in NSW seems to be the 1828 census.
She came out with her husband and maybe a child called Henry, although it seems there is no record of the latter on the voyage, so this may be suspect. I know of a record of a death of an infant Henry in 1803 in NSW.
But Mary seems to have been well gifted by the Governor at the time. Her convict husband Henry died in 1806. We know she had a liaison with a Henry Major (Why didn’t he make it easier and have a different first name?), with the result of a few more children. She was granted around Jun 1823 a lease of some quarter of an acre in or around Castlereagh St Sydney. (Ref: leases NSW State archives Ref R2704 Microfilm).
Would this be normal?
By that time (1823), her main progeny William Sampson Pickett (b 1804), was reasonably settled around Brisbane Waters.
My main question is, bypassing the obvious answers, is why would she be looked on so favourably by the governor at the time (Brisbane, I believe).
And as an aside is it possible to find whether any infants were aboard the Glatton? My research says no.
Regards and thanks
For anyone interested in this convict.
THE STORY OF DAVID HAWKINS
Wednesday 11 September 10-11.45am
Presented by Ken Brice
David Hawkins was a convict who arrived in Sydney in 1801 on the ‘Earl Cornwallis’. His crime was the theft of a goose, a rooster, a duck and a turkey. In Windsor in 1810 he married 15 year old Jane Cooling.
Come along and hear his story at the Hawkesbury Family History Group Meeting, Tebbutt Room, Deerubbin Centre, Windsor. FREE admission, all welcome.
Quick question. I was looking through the Third Fleet indents on Ancestry, then later I believe under a different category found an entirely different document, with apparently the same information recorded. I understand that in the case of this fleet, the 'indents' are a list of anticipated convicts with subsequent additions and deletions. However, is there more than one source of indents? What is the ideal place to uncover whether more than one set of records exist (I.e. is there a source describing the various primary records and where they are held?)
I'm not searching for a specific person, I've just become extremely interested in this and earlier fleets!
Thanks as always,
Sent from my iPhone
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